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American kids, dumber than dirt; is it really this bad? - Page 4

post #46 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericj View Post


 


 

He teaches at a private university where the average accepted student graduated highschool with a 3.8 GPA.


Edit: But to address the latter part of your comments, Dad is outspoken on his opinion that it is absurd to insist that everyone should get a liberal arts education. That most people would be better served by a good vocational school. I never actually went to college - and i regret not having that social experience - but I'm fairly certain that among my 7 siblings i'm in the top 3 earners.

 

Well, there goes my theory on that. But I do think my theory of college as an expectation still helps explain the decline. That, and I also think that the specific discipline of writing tends to not be taught in a systematized manner at the secondary school level. Certain other disciplines, I think, have genuinely advanced. For example, in my parents day, it was extremely unusual for someone to take calculus in high school. When I was in high school, you were considered a low-achiever if you did not take calculus. 
 


Edited by nealric - 10/23/10 at 10:46am
post #47 of 163

Also, colleges have become competitive in the wrong ways. I can tell you as a fact that of the top 20 ranked students in my high school, I would only classify about 5 of them as actually being "smart." And yet the top 5 graduated with 4.0 GPAs in high school. High school has gotten so ridiculously easy it's not even funny. During my 4 years in High School I can't remember ever studying for a test, ever being fastidious about my homework, or ever generally putting any effort into things. And now I'm going to the same college as my class valedictorian on the same "Presidential Merit Scholarship." 

 

Vocational schools are a brilliant thing. There was a study out recently that said there are some 40,000 janitors out there or some equally crazy number with Ph. Ds. I believe it. With college an expected part of academics, there aren't nearly enough people with experience in fields, and more and more people getting jobs in the service sector with degrees.

 

It's even gotten to the point where it's difficult to get jobs in most living-wage jobs without a degree just because any degree apparently makes you more "qualified" than the next person. It's killing our economy, and widening the wage gap.

 

I'm fairly happy at my college, in a way it's a hybrid of a college and a vocational school. Four years of the program are traditional classroom learning but one year of the program is going into your field of study as a paid employee, while not paying tuition. Seems that this is the only way to actually get a job in your area of study anymore.

 

Vocational schools are brilliant. I don't know why more people don't use them, when their job placement is actually generally better than that of most liberal arts degree programs. Real experience will always be more satisfying than the piece of paper on your wall.


Edited by revolink24 - 10/23/10 at 10:31am
post #48 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolink24 View Post

Also, colleges have become competitive in the wrong ways. I can tell you as a fact that of the top 20 ranked students in my high school, I would only classify about 5 of them as actually being "smart." And yet the top 5 graduated with 4.0 GPAs in high school. High school has gotten so ridiculously easy it's not even funny. During my 4 years in High School I can't remember ever studying for a test, ever being fastidious about my homework, or ever generally putting any effort into things. And now I'm going to the same college as my class valedictorian on the same "Presidential Merit Scholarship." 

 

Vocational schools are a brilliant thing. There was a study out recently that said there are some 40,000 janitors out there or some equally crazy number with Ph. Ds. I believe it. With college an expected part of academics, there aren't nearly enough people with experience in fields, and more and more people getting jobs in the service sector with degrees.

 

It's even gotten to the point where it's difficult to get jobs in most living-wage jobs without a degree just because any degree apparently makes you more "qualified" than the next person. It's killing our economy, and widening the wage gap.

 

I'm fairly happy at my college, in a way it's a hybrid of a college and a vocational school. Four years of the program are traditional classroom learning but one year of the program is going into your field of study as a paid employee, while not paying tuition. Seems that this is the only way to actually get a job in your area of study anymore.

 

Vocational schools are brilliant. I don't know why more people don't use them, when their job placement is actually generally better than that of most liberal arts degree programs. Real experience will always be more satisfying than the piece of paper on your wall.



I don't think most college students even want to think about jobs until after they graduate. 

 

That said, I think the purpose of a lot of liberal arts schools is to prepare you for graduate school. Almost everyone at my liberal arts college planned to do grad school from the very start- and they pretty much all stuck to that plan. Come to think of it, I only can think of two or three who didn't go to grad school. Both are artist-types. 


Edited by nealric - 10/23/10 at 10:54am
post #49 of 163

I'm 18 years old, and I feel that 99% of the people I graduated high school with were absolutely stupid. And I went to a college prep high school.

 

For example:

"Does the fall of the Berlin Wall have anything to do with the unification of Germany?" was asked in my Modern Euro class senior year.

 

Not only is the question common sense, it was asked by someone who probably had a better grade than me in the class. The top 10 of my senior class was filled with people who I could not have a deep conversation with. They were not at all "smart" but they were on Honor Roll and took a number of Advanced Placement classes.

 

I'm kind of a conspiracy theorist, and I do think that this is being done on purpose. What do governments like? People who can't think for themselves. People who are too concerned with hollywood gossip and pop music to pay attention to the news.


Edited by salannelson - 10/23/10 at 2:40pm
post #50 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by salannelson View Post

I'm 18 years old, and I feel that 99% of the people I graduated high school with were absolutely stupid. And I went to a college prep high school.

 

For example:

"Does the fall of the Berlin Wall have anything to do with the unification of Germany?" was asked in my Modern Euro class senior year.

 

Not only is the question common sense, it was asked by someone who probably had a better grade than me in the class. The top 10 of my senior class was filled with people who I could not have a deep conversation with. They were not at all "smart" but they were on Honor Roll and took a number of Advanced Placement classes.

 

I'm kind of a conspiracy theorist, and I do think that this is being done on purpose. What do governments like? People who can't think for themselves. People who are too concerned with hollywood gossip and pop music to pay attention to the news.

 

So you lambast people for lacking common sense, then admit to being a conspiracy theorist? 

 

irony2.jpg
 

post #51 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealric View Post



 

So you lambast people for lacking common sense, then admit to being a conspiracy theorist? 

 

irony2.jpg
 



Hehehe. The irony does burn....

post #52 of 163

Sometimes a conspiracy isn't a theory.

post #53 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolink24 View Post

Indeed. Education is largely a state controlled affair in the US.



The teachers unions exert undue control.

post #54 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moontan13 View Post





The teachers unions exert undue control.


True. My teachers union at my high school spent the entire year threatening to go on strike until they got a raise even though we were already the second highest paid school in the state.

post #55 of 163

ITT:  Everyone thinks of themselves as smarter than everyone else. Meanwhile, they spend $500 on cables for their headphones.


Edited by i_love_hina - 10/23/10 at 10:27pm
post #56 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

Sometimes a conspiracy isn't a theory.



In which case it's not a conspiracy theory.

post #57 of 163
Thread Starter 

For humans conspiring is an extremely common activity, and always has been. Businesses and the military for example conspire on a regular basis, it's called strategic planning. We are all just hairless apes competing for limited resources after all.


Edited by grokit - 10/23/10 at 11:32pm
post #58 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

For humans conspiring is an extremely common activity, and always has been. Businesses and the military for example conspire on a regular basis, it's called strategic planning. We are all just hairless apes competing for limited resources after all.


Who are you calling hairless?!  

post #59 of 163

I don't understand how so many people believe the government to be incapable of properly running a country, then turn around and say that the government is stealthy enough to be running huge programs such as this and managing to keep people in the dark about it.  How, with the thousands of people who work for any major government, are they going to keep something like a population-dumbing scheme hidden?  None of the elected members (especially opposing parties) would call the government on it? 

 

Do governments control their populations?  Yes (ex. after 9/11 when governments (especially in the US) implemented population-control strategies), but large-scale conspiracies at this level are simply not realistic.  My 2 cents anyway.


Edited by cyberidd - 10/24/10 at 12:04am
post #60 of 163

You forget the linchpin of wide reaching conspiracy theories. The different political parties are actually fronts for the real power behind America. The point of the political parties is to convince the populace at large that they are in control of their government by offering superficial choices on unimportant issues. In reality, the masters of America (either Illuminati/Freemason if going ancient, or CFR/Bilderberg/Trilateral Commission if going modern) control America's destiny from behind the scenes and generally display a Hari Seldon-esque knack for directing the flow of history without tipping their hand to us hopelessly uninformed rubes.

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