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Unamped 650 so bad?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 

So as the title says I have an unamped hd 650 and an age old but at the time high end stereo system(heco speakers with yahama amp) god knows how much it costed.

 

Recently I bought an asus xonar d2x and the aforementioned 650s. Now I compared the d2x with my pc onboard alc889 and ipod with my stereo system(my headphones arrived later). They both showed the same flaws. In one song there was one particular beat that sounds flat and 2dimensional on the ipod and alc889 whilst the d2x showed full depth and an overall more satisfying sound. When a lot of instuments played the d2x showed nice clarity and seperation to a depth I can't described whilst the ipod and alc889 produced a river of muddy mush.

 

Now when I tested my speakers and headphones(on my dads denon amp, my d2x in-built amp and my yamaha ax-500 amp) and there was no difference. Now my brother played my stereo a little to loud and smelled rubber and then did it again and again so I guess that explains why those aren't good anymore ^^. But what about the headphones? Are they really that bad without a decent amp? Were my previous tests inaccurate? Did I in some way break my headphones(I played them a little too loud for1sec orso once having them make a horrbile vibration sound, I posted a thread though and the consensus was they should be fine) note though I never really tested the headphones so as far as I know they where never good enough to set my d2x apart from an ipod or alc899? Is anything I am saying even making sense?

 

Thanks in advance for those willing enought to help biggrin.gif

post #2 of 24

You might want to keep in mind that the HD650s have 300 ohm impedance. That makes them fairly hard to drive; they need a lot of power. The D2X seems to output more power to feed the HD650.

post #3 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody007 View Post

So as the title says I have an unamped hd 650 and an age old but at the time high end stereo system(heco speakers with yahama amp) god knows how much it costed.

 

Recently I bought an asus xonar d2x and the aforementioned 650s. Now I compared the d2x with my pc onboard alc889 and ipod with my stereo system(my headphones arrived later). They both showed the same flaws. In one song there was one particular beat that sounds flat and 2dimensional on the ipod and alc889 whilst the d2x showed full depth and an overall more satisfying sound. When a lot of instuments played the d2x showed nice clarity and seperation to a depth I can't described whilst the ipod and alc889 produced a river of muddy mush.

 

Now when I tested my speakers and headphones(on my dads denon amp, my d2x in-built amp and my yamaha ax-500 amp) and there was no difference. Now my brother played my stereo a little to loud and smelled rubber and then did it again and again so I guess that explains why those aren't good anymore ^^. But what about the headphones? Are they really that bad without a decent amp? Were my previous tests inaccurate? Did I in some way break my headphones(I played them a little too loud for1sec orso once having them make a horrbile vibration sound, I posted a thread though and the consensus was they should be fine) note though I never really tested the headphones so as far as I know they where never good enough to set my d2x apart from an ipod or alc899? Is anything I am saying even making sense?

 

Thanks in advance for those willing enought to help biggrin.gif


Yes you can break headphones with them being way too loud for only 1 second.. and yes the HD650s are hard to drive to their full potential (your sound card won't do it).

post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 

I realize that the d21x doesn't even come close to being a decent amp for my 650s and that I may have damaged them, but is it possile that I can't hear the differences I heard with my speakers with my headphones because they aren't good enough unamped?

post #5 of 24

Yes, you need an amp to bring the HD650 to their full potential. I recently upgraded from a Xonar Essence STX to a Schiit Asgard for my HD600, and it made a huge difference. The sound improves in every way.

post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 

Thanks for posting one of the few posts I can actually understand ^^

post #7 of 24

The impedance of HD650 is 300 ohm, but it has high sensitvity, 103 or something.

LIke the Beyer's DT231 and DT860, they both are 32 ohm, but the DT860 is easy to drive than the DT231 due to the high sensitivity.

 

That's why the HD650 suonds OK unamp.

post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 

Well thanks all for helping it seems I really do need an amp so let the amp hunt begin.

post #9 of 24

Er, not so fast. I'm not sure I understood your post but the part I did understand was that you had a Yamaha ax-500 amp. Could you just clarify what the 650 sounds like with the Yamaha? That's a good amp with a high output impedance and should suit the 650s just fine. Don't be stampeded into buying a dedicated amp just because others say you need one; a good integrated can serve more than satisfactorily.

post #10 of 24

^ I agree. I was quite surprised to find that my friend's humble Denon integrated amp drives my higher impedance headphones almost as well as my dedicated desktop headphone amp, and actually better than my previous model. It shouldn't be taken for granted that anyone needs to buy a dedicated headphone amp if they already have an integrated amp with a good hp out.

post #11 of 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

Er, not so fast. I'm not sure I understood your post but the part I did understand was that you had a Yamaha ax-500 amp. Could you just clarify what the 650 sounds like with the Yamaha? That's a good amp with a high output impedance and should suit the 650s just fine. Don't be stampeded into buying a dedicated amp just because others say you need one; a good integrated can serve more than satisfactorily.

 

Plus most folks getting stampeded go and buy a Little Dot something.... which might not really do much more right over the integrated amp. If you're going to splurge, do it on something worth wild. wink.gif

post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 

That was my first plan but there was never much faith in the aging yamaha. Since you guys seem to know what you're talking about I'll run some tests again and see what I find out. Let me just say what I have at my disposal to compare:

 

DAC: alc889, old phillips CD player which was bought together with the yamaha so I assume it's in the same categorie, my d2x sound card and lastly a  Denon DCD 700AE

 

AMP: yamaha ax-500, sound card amp,lots of crappy stuff like TV, ipod , etc... and a denon PMA 700AE headphone out + DCD 700AE headphone out

 

SPEAKERS/HEADPHONES: my 650s obviously and a pair of epos m12i

 

What I found already comparing with a lossless wma file and CD from rammstein(man gegen man) is: D2X > ipod, D2x > alc899, Denon CD player > ipod.

 

So far both the epos speakers and the hecos my brother busted revealed the differences stated above. But the sennheisers didn't or I could have been listening wrongly. I'll do some more comparing, but where do you guys think the epos speakers stand compared to the 650s?

post #13 of 24

I'm still not quite picking up on what you're saying, Somebody, perhaps because you keep bringing speakers into the equation. Speakers are an entirely different thing and totally irrelevant when comparing headphones or determining the best amps for them. For the edification of us all, give the Yamaha amp a good try with your 650s and let us know what you think. Put all thoughts of the amp's age or what better sound you might get if you spent two grand or indeed whether you feel like a peanut butter sandwich right now....just listen and see if the sound resembles music. I sense at the moment a number of things are clouding your judgement (not excluding Head-Fi) and you're doing what all novices and most old hands do in the process of trying to get good sound---thinking way too much and getting a headache.  

post #14 of 24

I did not read this entire thread and only the title. I bought a hd 650 and have tried it un amped. I also bought a hd 555 at the same time for my sister and tried hers un amped during the span of 3 days. HD 555 soudned a lot better than HD 650 un amped. HD 650 was horrible un amped. I was very disapointed with it. Although its my first pair of headphones coming from ipod earbuds I was STILL disapointed with the HD 650 unamped. People say its best to get hd 650 un amped with the intentions of later purchasing an amp as it will still sound good. I totally disagree with that. You NEED to have an amp with hd 650 no matter what. Otherwize go for something a lot cheaper.

post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

I'm still not quite picking up on what you're saying, Somebody, perhaps becaum. For the edification of us all, give the Yamaha amp a good try with your 650s and let us know what you think. Put all thoughts of the amp's age or what better sound you might get if you spent two grand or indeed whether you feel like a peanut butter sandwich right now....just listen and see if the sound resembles music. I sense at the moment a number of thingse you keep bringing speakers into the equation. Speakers are an entirely different thing and totally irrelevant when comparing headphones or determining the best amps for thes are clouding your judgement (not excluding Head-Fi) and you're doing what all novices and most old hands do in the process of trying to get good sound---thinking way too much and getting a headache.  


I think that's the most sense anyone here on head-fi has spoken. Everyone was talking mids, lows and vocals. For me my hd650s satisfy me in every way. From the extreme comfort and build quality, to the pure sound that flows through my head. The 650s with the yamaha hit everything else I've ever heard out of the park. So let me thank you from clearing my mind and letting my enjoy my be it imperfect sound system.

 

and btw: I heard you can build an amp? What's you're thought on this? You think it's a good idea to try this(This is more like a learning step than actually expecting high quality from it)?

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