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Ultrasone edition 10 "THE BUTTERFLY" initial impressions - Page 4

post #46 of 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post



 

It may not match the R10 or Q010, but I have a feeling it will be on par with the L3000, K1000, and HE60... all of which sell for more than their original asking price.
 



Yeah, but those are all headphones that almost everybody likes (maybe except L3000). Many people don't like Ultrasones (I don't) and to be honest, I never see an Ultrasone becoming a beloved classic. Not to mention they will surely produce an Edition 11, 12, etc. Ultrasone has clearly shown that their marketing strategy is to release numerous special editions and new models. If a K1000 or re-issue came out, used prices would go down. If Sennheiser had replaced the HE-60 every 3 years like Ultrasone does with its products, the older models would lose value. Just wait until Edition 10 Palladium comes out ... then that will be the "must have future classic." Then the Edition 11 will render it obsolete, producing perfect sound forever. At least until the Edition 11 super luxury wood ruthenium lambskin gold platinum edition. I'm not saying the Ed 10 won't sound good or not to buy it, but don't count on it ever retaining its value. Look at how much the 3 previous editions sold for when they were new, and how much they are going for now.


Edited by tvrboy - 10/20/10 at 11:50am
post #47 of 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinker View Post




yes this happened and it got out of balance,pronounced midbass  and  compression on lower highs was the result the phones got somehow compressed or nervous (sibilance) so i dont recommend these phones with big tube amps.

Going through different amps it seems that these probably suit best with clean SS amps or straight out of i pod.(touch) with low volumes.Another review will be released in a German forum next weekend so i can compare hes findings

to mine.I recommend to listen before purchase and a picture of the "test laboratory"

 



if this is sibilance, then will be a NO NO to me already.      Is this after 100hr impression?

post #48 of 2067

The cable looks better. Is it detachable?

post #49 of 2067


Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrboy View Post

Yeah, but those are all headphones that almost everybody likes (maybe except L3000). Many people don't like Ultrasones (I don't) and to be honest, I never see an Ultrasone becoming a beloved classic. Not to mention they will surely produce an Edition 11, 12, etc. Ultrasone has clearly shown that their marketing strategy is to release numerous special editions and new models. If a K1000 or re-issue came out, used prices would go down. If Sennheiser had replaced the HE-60 every 3 years like Ultrasone does with its products, the older models would lose value. Just wait until Edition 10 Palladium comes out ... then that will be the "must have future classic." Then the Edition 11 will render it obsolete, producing perfect sound forever. At least until the Edition 11 super luxury wood ruthenium lambskin gold platinum edition. I'm not saying the Ed 10 won't sound good or not to buy it, but don't count on it ever retaining its value. Look at how much the 3 previous editions sold for when they were new, and how much they are going for now.


I agree that if the ED10 are consensually praised, Ultrasone will release a non-limited Palladium version without all the fancy bling, for hopefully $1,000 less. I see about the same depreciation with the ED8 and the HD800 in the secondhand market.


Edited by grokit - 10/20/10 at 1:37pm
post #50 of 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

Are you using a DAC? You mentioned they sound exceptional out of an iPod. It would be quite a feat if these sounded as good as an HD800 without an amp.

 

I mean, if that's the case, then these are suddenly more competitive with "more reasonably priced" cans that need amping.


The point of an amp is that it provides a more linear performance with the headphones overall. This translates to lower distortion and higher sound quality. A single integrated chip, such as you find in Apple's computers, cannot provide this.  If the ED10s only sound good, frequency-response-wise, out of an iPod or Mac Pro out, which will have much higher distortion than a good high-end rig, then something is very wrong.  It will be disappointing if they have the usual overwhelming boomy bass like the other Ultrasone models when used with high-quality gear.

 

thinker: Those graphs that were posted: Are they compensated? That massive peak in the mid-to-treble area looks like that of an un-compensated FR graph.

post #51 of 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

The point of an amp is that it provides a more linear performance with the headphones overall. This translates to lower distortion and higher sound quality. A single integrated chip, such as you find in Apple's computers, cannot provide this.  If the ED10s only sound good, frequency-response-wise, out of an iPod or Mac Pro out, which will have much higher distortion than a good high-end rig, then something is very wrong.  It will be disappointing if they have the usual overwhelming boomy bass like the other Ultrasone models when used with high-quality gear.

 

thinker: Those graphs that were posted: Are they compensated? That massive peak in the mid-to-treble area looks like that of an un-compensated FR graph.


I understand that an amp will provide better sound quality vs. a computer sans DAC. What I'm saying is that thinker's impressions seem to suggest that even unamped the Edition 10 sounds very nice. Far better than an HD800 sounds unamped for example. That's not to say they can't be improved using an amp. I'm not going to rule out the possibility that these will sound good with an amp. It's quite possible thinker's gear just wasn't a good match for them. Or maybe thinker just hears differently.

 

Regardless, I'll be trying them out amped on solid state and tubes. With the right amp, they could very well improve considerably.

post #52 of 2067

The Edition headphones have a burn in of 80-100 hours to sound best.

post #53 of 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasone View Post

The Edition headphones have a burn in of 80-100 hours to sound best.



Interesting. Is this Ultrasone's official stance? If so, it may be the first time a major headphone company has endorsed the concept of burn-in. I don't personally believe in it, but if Ultrasone has research or testing showing a measurable improvement, I would change my mind.

post #54 of 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePio View Post



My ATH-W5000's sound best amped with the HA5000's and an Ipod being the source. Ever since I got rid of my DAC and put aside my "pride" and tried out the Ipod, it created the perfect sound I was looking for without investing more money. IMO if the ED-10 sound great from an Ipod, all power to them! It just shows you that in order to achieve great sound you don't need to donate your organs to be able to run the headphone properly. 



I find using an Ipod as a source connected to a good headamp and hi-end cans is much poorer than a high quality dedicated DAC.  The first thing to note is that it doesn't not have as good control of the bass and transients are softened, as well as a generally much less refined sound, dynamics etc.  The ED10s should be able to illustrate these conditions provided a transparent headamp is driving them.

post #55 of 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post





I find using an Ipod as a source connected to a good headamp and hi-end cans is much poorer than a high quality dedicated DAC.  The first thing to note is that it doesn't not have as good control of the bass and transients are softened, as well as a generally much less refined sound, dynamics etc.  The ED10s should be able to illustrate these conditions provided a transparent headamp is driving them.

Technically you are 100% correct, that is obviously the logical assumption but in my set-up this was not the case. I am not sure if it's the combination of the W5000+HA5000+Ipod that exclusively somehow works wonders, since the sound is improved in every possible way compared to my dedicated Parasound DAC. If I hadn't heard the set-up myself would have never believed it, but it somehow works. I tried my K701 with the Ipod and was disappointed with the sound, was exactly what you described. The bottom line is, the W5000's never had such great bass response, open soundstage, liquid like mids and analog like sound before from any other source, its the perfect setup now. It makes no sense technically but practically its stunning and thats all I care about lol... So if the ED-10 can produce something similar, I find no fault in that... 
 

post #56 of 2067

The S-Logic isn't the burn in thing.

The Ultrasone 2500 I have out of box while shows signs of possible good sound.

But its muddy,congested,very dark treble, treble definition issues,very powerful bass.

 

After some time

 

The treble brightens up but doesn't go beyond neutral area dead zeroish,gains more detail, more definition,more clarity.

Mids really start to shine.

Bass weakens but yet keeps its incredible  detail,depth, and thump no other headphone I heard has bass like they have.

You could say all other headphones bass is awful compared to it.

The more time I spend with them the more they mop the floor with the Beyerdynamic DT 880/600 ohms.

 

Actually the S-Logic thing is brilliant putting the drivers where they are.

My ears are saying thank you for how pleasant they make headphone music sound.

 

Trust Your Ears is definitely a good slogan for the company.


Edited by mibutenma - 10/20/10 at 6:29pm
post #57 of 2067

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePio View Post

Technically you are 100% correct, that is obviously the logical assumption but in my set-up this was not the case. I am not sure if it's the combination of the W5000+HA5000+Ipod that exclusively somehow works wonders, since the sound is improved in every possible way compared to my dedicated Parasound DAC. If I hadn't heard the set-up myself would have never believed it, but it somehow works. I tried my K701 with the Ipod and was disappointed with the sound, was exactly what you described. The bottom line is, the W5000's never had such great bass response, open soundstage, liquid like mids and analog like sound before from any other source, its the perfect setup now. It makes no sense technically but practically its stunning and thats all I care about lol... So if the ED-10 can produce something similar, I find no fault in that... 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post

I find using an Ipod as a source connected to a good headamp and hi-end cans is much poorer than a high quality dedicated DAC.  The first thing to note is that it doesn't not have as good control of the bass and transients are softened, as well as a generally much less refined sound, dynamics etc.  The ED10s should be able to illustrate these conditions provided a transparent headamp is driving them.

 

Totally OT, but this is interesting to me so I'll make it quick! I think that you both may be right; IME the HA5000/W5000 combo has exceptional bass control that may compensate for the iPod's lack of it, and the W5000 might actually benefit from the softened transients as it is a very detailed-sounding headphone. The W5000 also benefits from its "double-damped bass" as well as the closed wooden cups for low-end control. I have been meaning to try my iMod with the capacitored input on the RA5000 as I never use that input for anything else, and I can compare the results to a regular iPod in the DC offset input when I get a chance. Too bad the RA5000 doesn't let you switch between the two inputs.


Edited by grokit - 10/20/10 at 7:36pm
post #58 of 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePio View Post



Technically you are 100% correct, that is obviously the logical assumption but in my set-up this was not the case. I am not sure if it's the combination of the W5000+HA5000+Ipod that exclusively somehow works wonders, since the sound is improved in every possible way compared to my dedicated Parasound DAC. If I hadn't heard the set-up myself would have never believed it, but it somehow works. I tried my K701 with the Ipod and was disappointed with the sound, was exactly what you described. The bottom line is, the W5000's never had such great bass response, open soundstage, liquid like mids and analog like sound before from any other source, its the perfect setup now. It makes no sense technically but practically its stunning and thats all I care about lol... So if the ED-10 can produce something similar, I find no fault in that... 
 


It is very possible that the W5000s are "speed matched" to the Ipod source and the low bass presence of the W5000 does not hi light the slightly less bass control.  The closed cup resonance, reflections and coloration may well be overiding some of the Ipods solid state type distortions, tube amps also mask solid state distortion with its own more pleasing tube distortion.  The Ipod source might synergise well with the W5000 in tonalities.  All in all, IME these outcomes are very much plausible and hence I do not doubt the validity of your claims.

post #59 of 2067

Tube amps are the most colored equipment on this planet no matter how high-end. Ultrasones never sounded good through tube amps. We'll need impressions of it on a solid state.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post




The problem isn't that they sound good with an iPod. It's that they sound bad with high-end equipment. That's not a good sign. It means that they're coloured to correct for the flaws of low-end sources/amps.

post #60 of 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasone View Post

The Edition headphones have a burn in of 80-100 hours to sound best.


Maybe longer.  My Edition 8 purchased used was claimed to have about 500 hours.  They still had a tad of zing and tizz.  They have always sounded great with ipod.  At first, not so much with high end amp like my Manley neo 300b.  However, after a few more hundred hours, the sound is becoming more than a little luxurious, no zing or tizz, the sound stage is expanding  to produce an astounding sound for headphones.  I prefer speakers to headphones, but these things with about 800 hours are really good now with all sources and amplifiers.

I now tend to believe that a lot of the negative commentary comes from people who have not heard them broken in.  It seems to take a really long time with Ed 8, maybe as much as 1000 hours.

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