Originally Posted by Rooford
I'll bite, I can't tell the difference. Although I would say it's difficult to tell with very percussive music, for me at least bit rate makes a difference for synth, strings or cymbals where the aliasing is more noticable probably because there's fewer bits available to capture the wide range in frequency.
Ha! That's why I like listening tests that don't have cymbals. Too many times listening tests for a song get whittled down to just the milliseconds around a cymbal hit and using just that to judge which one is lossy and which is lossless. I'd rather have listening tests that force people to listen to the entire song and the overall sound rather than zeroing in on specific pre-echo artifacts in specific milliseconds around cymbal hits.
We did a recent 128 mp3 vs. lossless test with a Mozart piece. No cymbals. That was fun. A difference can be heard, but it's not in pre-echo type artifacts.
For the Rodrigo y Gabriela I'd suggest listening for the space that is inside and just around the guitar(s). The picups are inside the guitar. They're acoustic pickups. You can catch the space that is the body of the guitar with a good headphone and good gear. Differences when picking the strings closer to the neck vs. closer to the body of the guitar. Differences especially when drumming around on the body of the guitar. With a good headphone and good gear you can hear the drumming swim around your head as they drum around on different parts of the body of the guitar (look at the YouTube videos to see what they're doing, and then listen for that). You can hear clear differences between just fingers vs. an open palm hitting the body of the guitar. Things like that. The MP3 version should be missing some of those clues or have those spacial clues more blurred.
I like to use the Rodrigo y Gabriela CD as listening samples at meets. I've heard Tamacun and Diablo Rojo on a variety of good headphones. Some very good headphones don't get those spacial cues as well as other headphones. The best I've heard for those spacial cues have been the Grado GS1000 and PS1000. The big salad bowl Grados are amazing in that respect. Soundly upstaging even headphones like the LCD-2 (but the LCD-2 gets the tone and timbre right, so very very right, so very real). My poor little RS325is is just a pale shadow of what the GS1000 and PS1000 does for spacial cues and the sense of space with the Rodrigo y Gabriela.
So I think particular headphones are going to make this particular listening test easier or harder depending on how well the headphones do at getting the sense of space in this song. I'd suggest headphones like the big Grados or the HD800 for this test if you've got them. HD600/HD650, D2000, and similar will make the test more difficult. I don't know about the K701/702, I haven't tried it with this music.
I'm going to use my SR325is for this one cause it's what I've got. If I had access to a HD800 or GS1000 I'd use that.
I already gave the samples a quick listen. I think I know which is which and it seems I'm able to hear a difference. It is subtle. I'll have to plug into the Foobar ABX test to confirm. But won't be able to take the time to do so right away.
Edit to add a spoiler for my initial guess:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Edited by Ham Sandwich - 10/18/10 at 11:01pm
Spoiler for my initial guess based on listening with the SR325is
A is lossy
B is lossless
The difference is the "space" in the sound and recording, but it's subtle