silvercans said:

Got the ref7 today, just hooked it up via RCA jacks, and coax in, sounds cold and analytical (again just 10 min out of the box); also sounds lean in the bass department. Is this normal for now? The Dac19DSP I had sounded totally different [much warmer and less analytical but again it was broken in and had dsp v3 (I think, it certainly wasnt v5)]

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silvercans said:

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regal said:

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sokolov91 said:

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regal said:

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nada said:

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regal said:

  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.

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Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?

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Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 

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Off topic, but do you know if the Ref 7 or Ref 8 have this negative feedback? I was under the impression they didn't.

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No NFB has been used in the neutral series

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That sounds like a double negative, so are you saying this: The neutral series has no negative feed-back, whereas the musical series has negative feedback?

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kenobi said:

I am curious to find out if it is in the same league as the Ref 7 but of a different sound signature due to the different DAC chips involved.  I hope it is on par with a slightly "younger" sound to the singer as previously described.  Also, if the NFB 8 is any good as well.  Those with experience, please chime in and help us out.
 

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audio-omega said:

Has anyone bought one ?

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purrin said:

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kenobi said:

I am curious to find out if it is in the same league as the Ref 7 but of a different sound signature due to the different DAC chips involved.  I hope it is on par with a slightly "younger" sound to the singer as previously described.  Also, if the NFB 8 is any good as well.  Those with experience, please chime in and help us out.
 

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audio-omega said:

Has anyone bought one ?

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My bet is that we will never find out. It seems so far, people are avoiding the NFB-7 like the plague, although a handful of NFB-8s have gone out recently according to the Audio-gd ship list. I was very seriously thinking about picking up an NFB-7 for the heck of it, but Pacific Valve raised it price from $1350 shipped to $1470. This price increase combined with a few conversations I had with people I trusted saying the NFB-1 was "analytical" made me stay away - far away. Now if I hadn't already ordered a REF-7, I would have definitely would have taken a risk and picked up an NFB-8, especially at it's current price at $1220.

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vrln said:

The PCM1704UK chip is a mono chip, meaning you have to have at least two for stereo, four for balanced. It is quite expensive, around the same price as the ESS Sabre32 chip. Eight chips vs one,

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