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Audio GD NFB- 7 Sabre32 ES9018 DAC Opinion & Reviews - Page 4

post #46 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

Well I guess what I was trying say say is that Audio-gd DACs seems have a "consistent" house sound voiced by the designer (or "cook"), i.e. an ESS based NFB-7 will probably sound more similar to REF-7 than a W4S DAC1 (also ESS). And that concerns about the NFB-7 sounding like other uninvolved and analytical ESS based DACs may be exaggerated. We'll see for sure once more of the NFB-7s get into folks hands - that is if they ever do - seems to be a slow seller right now.


Purrin,  as in pur speculationrolleyes.gif
 


LOL, just ordered a REF-7 instead of an NFB-7 from Pacific Valve after talking with Joe there. Although the REF7 was a little bit more than I wanted to spend, I didn't want to risk an unknown - after hearing so many accounts of "analytical" with ESS chip implementations. A better power supply isn't going to make that analytical sound musical.

 

@Denys: Don't know what duties would be in Canada. Ordering via the Internet from Pacific Valve in California is simply the price on the website (they ship free). BTW, they raised the price of the NFB-7. It's no longer $1350.


No duties but there are indeed taxes which would be the USD converted to CAD then taxed on your provincial rate. Much cheaper to order from china as they will declare these dacs as low as 500$. Tax on 1300$ is much more than on 500$... almost 200$ tax on 1300$


Edited by sokolov91 - 11/21/10 at 11:28am
post #47 of 72

Seriously?

 

YES L3000.gif

post #48 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post


No duties but there are indeed taxes which would be the USD converted to CAD then taxed on your provincial rate. Much cheaper to order from china as they will declare these dacs as low as 500$. Tax on 1300$ is much more than on 500$... almost 200$ tax on 1300$



It's too big of a gamble to undeclare a package of this size. If something breaks, then Audio GD will only cover you for the amount declared. Personally, I would rather just pay the extra $180 or so in taxes. It's not that bad when spending almost $2k anyway.

post #49 of 72
post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz View Post

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB8/NFB8EN.htm  L3000.gif


Very interesting, that's what I've been waiting for is a Sabre version of the Ref 8. I assume the price will be a bit less than the NFB-7?

post #51 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz View Post

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB8/NFB8EN.htm  L3000.gif



New flagship,  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.   This one is very interesting and will surely cost more than the NFB-7.


Edited by regal - 11/24/10 at 12:32am
post #52 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.


Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?

post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nada View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.


Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?



Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 


Edited by regal - 11/24/10 at 1:53am
post #54 of 72

Got it - thanks Regal

post #55 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nada View Post

Got it - thanks Regal



Closer examination it looks like the RE8 has 4 DD stages,  but the no feedback improvement is still there.

post #56 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nada View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.


Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?



Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 


Off topic, but do you know if the Ref 7 or Ref 8 have this negative feedback? I was under the impression they didn't.

post #57 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nada View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.


Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?



Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 


Off topic, but do you know if the Ref 7 or Ref 8 have this negative feedback? I was under the impression they didn't.



No NFB has been used in the neutral series

post #58 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nada View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.


Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?



Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 


Off topic, but do you know if the Ref 7 or Ref 8 have this negative feedback? I was under the impression they didn't.



No NFB has been used in the neutral series


That sounds like a double negative, so are you saying this: The neutral series has no negative feed-back, whereas the musical series has negative feedback?

post #59 of 72

whoops wrong thread


Edited by SilverCans - 11/29/10 at 5:51pm
post #60 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nada View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.


Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?



Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 


Off topic, but do you know if the Ref 7 or Ref 8 have this negative feedback? I was under the impression they didn't.



No NFB has been used in the neutral series


thanks!

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