purrin said:

Quote:

regal said:

Quote:

purrin said:

Well I guess what I was trying say say is that Audio-gd DACs seems have a "consistent" house sound voiced by the designer (or "cook"), i.e. an ESS based NFB-7 will probably sound more similar to REF-7 than a W4S DAC1 (also ESS). And that concerns about the NFB-7 sounding like other uninvolved and analytical ESS based DACs may be exaggerated. We'll see for sure once more of the NFB-7s get into folks hands - that is if they ever do - seems to be a slow seller right now.

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Purrin,  as in pur speculation

 

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LOL, just ordered a REF-7 instead of an NFB-7 from Pacific Valve after talking with Joe there. Although the REF7 was a little bit more than I wanted to spend, I didn't want to risk an unknown - after hearing so many accounts of "analytical" with ESS chip implementations. A better power supply isn't going to make that analytical sound musical.
 
@Denys: Don't know what duties would be in Canada. Ordering via the Internet from Pacific Valve in California is simply the price on the website (they ship free). BTW, they raised the price of the NFB-7. It's no longer $1350.

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sokolov91 said:

No duties but there are indeed taxes which would be the USD converted to CAD then taxed on your provincial rate. Much cheaper to order from china as they will declare these dacs as low as 500$. Tax on 1300$ is much more than on 500$... almost 200$ tax on 1300$

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danutz said:

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB8/NFB8EN.htm  

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danutz said:

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB8/NFB8EN.htm  

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regal said:

  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.

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nada said:

Quote:

regal said:

  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.

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Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?

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nada said:

Got it - thanks Regal

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regal said:

Quote:

nada said:

Quote:

regal said:

  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.

Click to expand...

Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?

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Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 

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sokolov91 said:

Quote:

regal said:

Quote:

nada said:

Quote:

regal said:

  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.

Click to expand...

Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?

Click to expand...

Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 

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Off topic, but do you know if the Ref 7 or Ref 8 have this negative feedback? I was under the impression they didn't.

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regal said:

Quote:

sokolov91 said:

Quote:

regal said:

Quote:

nada said:

Quote:

regal said:

  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.

Click to expand...

Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?

Click to expand...

Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 

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Off topic, but do you know if the Ref 7 or Ref 8 have this negative feedback? I was under the impression they didn't.

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No NFB has been used in the neutral series

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regal said:

Quote:

sokolov91 said:

Quote:

regal said:

Quote:

nada said:

Quote:

regal said:

  4 DD stages all hand matched with no opamp servo and no NFB as used in the I/V of the other DD series.

Click to expand...

Regal, can you please explain what the bold text means as i can read this two ways and i cant figure out which way you mean it to be taken. Do you mean other Diamond Differential models have negative feedback but the NFB-8 is a different and better design?

Click to expand...

Well I know the musical series up to 3SE has an I/V stage with about 27dB of NFB (local).  Negative Feedback presents issues when used in many audio applications, especially in I/V,  at least in many experts opinions.  It has benefits as well in that it reduces THD and provides a low impedance load for the DAC.  As used in the 3SE it is well excecuted and presents no problems.    But to offer a discrete DD stage without NFB it is a step up in that the I/V stage doesn't need to rely on NFB.  I haven't bought any musical series sense the 3SE,  but I assumed the NFB was still being used so I was surprised when I read that it is not in the NFB-8,  this is the best Sabre DAC implementation on paper that I have seen.  If you search NFB and DAC at diyhifi.org or diyaudio you can get some more info from some real experts (Jocko, pfeu, etc) if you are interested 

Click to expand...

Off topic, but do you know if the Ref 7 or Ref 8 have this negative feedback? I was under the impression they didn't.

Click to expand...

No NFB has been used in the neutral series

Click to expand...