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Resampling 24/88 to 24/96 more harmfull then 24/88 to 24/44 ?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

Hope this is the right place for this question.

I already googled a bit but found only vague hints that 24/88 to 24/44 might be the better choice; but I'm not convinced yet.

I have 24/88 flac files which my source equipment is not able to play.
But it does 24/44 and 24/96.

So the question is, what harms overall sound quality more ... abandoning half of the sound information or smuggling in some anticipated samples ...

I would use foobar2000 for resampling.

 

post #2 of 15

you could measure it yourself using wavespectra, as I did last year on the Reclock forum: http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=227357&postcount=3996

 

Note that resampling is mandatory in Reclock, so it's wiser to upsample. In your case, a wild guess would be that it's better to add a bit of extra infos than chop off half of it...but don't take my word for it, measure it yourself smily_headphones1.gif


Edited by leeperry - 10/10/10 at 11:55am
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

you could measure it yourself using wavespectra



Hi leeperry, any hint were to get wavespectra? didn't find any usefull with google ...

 

... anyway, I would think upsampling should be better too ... assuming it's done as well as possible ...

 

post #4 of 15

it's Japanese software indeed: http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fa/efu/soft/ws/WS140.ZIP

post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 

Well since reading Haruki Murakami (english translation) I thought it might be usefull to learn Japanese ...

 

But how do I compare whole music tracks with this programm? Really no English help file available ?

post #6 of 15

the software is in english smily_headphones1.gif

 

you need to get foobar to output to a wave file, not sure that's possible?

 

then create a 88.2kHz 1kHz test tone as explained in the Reclock thread I referred to, resample it to 44.1 and 96kHz...and measure the THD/THD+N/SNR of the 2 resampled files in WaveSpectra. Do it also at 5kHz and 10kHz to comfort your results. The lowest THD+N wins...it'll most likely be 96kHz.


Edited by leeperry - 10/10/10 at 5:53pm
post #7 of 15

No home computer based measurement like Wavespectra is going to give you meaniful results.   Use foobar to ABX the too sample rates with your ears.  

 

In theory yes asyn resampling can be harmful because it has to insert notes that aren't on the original recording.

post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

the software is in english smily_headphones1.gif

 

you need to get foobar to output to a wave file, not sure that's possible?

 

then create a 88.2kHz 1kHz test tone as explained in the Reclock thread I referred to, resample it to 44.1 and 96kHz...and measure the THD/THD+N/SNR of the 2 resampled files in WaveSpectra. Do it also at 5kHz and 10kHz to comfort your results. The lowest THD+N wins...it'll most likely be 96kHz.


Yeah the software is in English, but help file is Japanese ...

 

Well, I need to test an already existing file form an external source.

So I have the original 24/88 (which was generated by somebody else) to compare against my upsampling version (24/96) of this original.

Testtones are no use in this case unfortunately.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post
 

In theory yes asyn resampling can be harmful because it has to insert notes that aren't on the original recording

 

These ain't notes which are inserted, are they?

You don't have 96000 something notes per second (Nobody who plays that fast ... )

It's an amplitude and frequency value which is inserted betwenn two existing values, isn't it? ... if not the whole file is calculated anew ...

 

Well, then I will just have to trust my ears


Edited by xabu - 10/11/10 at 3:24am
post #9 of 15

you got the quotes wrong my friend

 

well, you compare the test tones and you'll know which of 44.1 or 96kHz has the least distortion. the latter will prolly have clearer trebles than the former.

 

if you can't do that, you can't know which one is closer to the original, or maybe you could use some sprectrum analyzer...but resampling increases the THD/THD+N rates and decreases the SNR. As a last resort, trust your ears then

 

We're in the science forum, we like figures.


Edited by leeperry - 10/11/10 at 12:27am
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabu View Post

 

You don't have 96000 something notes per second (Nobody who plays that fast ... )

It's an amplitude and frequency value which is inserted betwenn two existing values, isn't it? ... if not the whole file is calculated anew ...

 

Well, then I will just have to trust my ears


 Not full notes,  but data in the spdif bitstream which weren't there originally (rounded off numerically). .
 

post #11 of 15

resampling from 88.2 to 96 k doesn't "lose information" like downsampling to 44.1 would

 

rounding error for a single processing step is audibly irrelevant at 24 bit resolution - no recording microphone&preamp, studio ADC, audio DAC or headphone amp has 144 dB S/N 

post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post

resampling from 88.2 to 96 k doesn't "lose information" like downsampling to 44.1 would

 

rounding error for a single processing step is audibly irrelevant at 24 bit resolution - no recording microphone&preamp, studio ADC, audio DAC or headphone amp has 144 dB S/N 


Well, that sounds pretty reasonable and reassuring

post #13 of 15

But people can hear differences in which resampling algorithm is used so those numbers don't tell the whole story.  I recommend the Sox resampler,  it seems to have the best reputation,  my recording friends say you should always dither after resampling,  so I use Izotope Ozone MSB+ for that.

post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post

But people can hear differences in which resampling algorithm is used so those numbers don't tell the whole story.  I recommend the Sox resampler,  it seems to have the best reputation,  my recording friends say you should always dither after resampling,  so I use Izotope Ozone MSB+ for that.


I used dbpoweramp with DSP SSRC resampling action. But I will try foobar with Sox now. Thanx for the tip!

post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post

But people can hear differences in which resampling algorithm is used.


This being the science subforum can you point us to some level matched blind tests to affirm this then PRM can add them to his list, thanks !

There was a recent AES paper which compared 44.1 vs 88.2 vs 44.1 resampled to 88.2 but the results were inconclusive and the stats a bit iffy, there is a discussion of this on Hydrogen Audio

 

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=82264

 

the paper is $5 for AES members or $20 for outsiders, it is interesting if not anything like a final word.


Edited by nick_charles - 10/12/10 at 6:19am
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