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Is there scientific evidence that "Pink Noise"-Burn-In changes the sound? - Page 3

post #31 of 304

I prefer the Heckler and Koch treatment as it provides short sharp bursts of sound, which in turn reduces the burn in time.

post #32 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man View Post

I prefer the Heckler and Koch treatment as it provides short sharp bursts of sound, which in turn reduces the burn in time.


Benelli is more efficient.

post #33 of 304
Thread Starter 

what???

post #34 of 304

I posted some facts recently about it that i caught hell for.  Those who say burn in isnt real or does nothing sadly have poor hearing and no knowledge of electronics and wiring, circuitry or anything related to acoustics.  The BAD thing is that pink noise can be harmful if you are not careful.  Best to just use normal music, make sure some songs have some good bass and others have good highs and you will do fine and its more safe than one static sound of non stop crackling coming through your drivers.  


Edited by swbf2cheater - 10/9/10 at 10:59am
post #35 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by p a t r i c k View Post




Well bringing us back to the question of the thread, is there scientific evidence?

 

This could be in the form of observed changes but blind ABX testing is also I think a good source of scientific evidence.

 

I don't know if blind ABX testing has been performed on the "burn in" business, but it might reveal some interesting data.

 

Personally I suspect reported burn in experiences are for the most part just acclimatisation of the human not alterations in the equipment.

I have a pair of Shure E2's with more than 500 hours. I know because I used them for working out, etc...a lot. And I have another pair that is brand new, less than 1 hour total. If you were to listen to both, you would be astounded at how different they sound. The one that has been burned in has significantly more bass and slightly more treble and it is somewhat enjoyable to listen to. The new pair has a narrow band around the mid frequencies and just sounds like crap. It is not merely a psychological effect of the mind compensating for the lack in sound quality. Any wear due to use that you could examine in the microscope can be atributed to burn in.

 

post #36 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post

I posted some facts recently about it that i caught hell for.  Those who say burn in isnt real or does nothing sadly have poor hearing and no knowledge of electronics and wiring, circuitry or anything related to acoustics.  The BAD thing is that pink noise can be harmful if you are not careful.  Best to just use normal music, make sure some songs have some good bass and others have good highs and you will do fine and its more safe than one static sound of non stop crackling coming through your drivers.  


You will have caught hell for the presentation of your facts, as opposed to the facts themselves, going by the above post.

post #37 of 304


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT View Post



I have a pair of Shure E2's with more than 500 hours. I know because I used them for working out, etc...a lot. And I have another pair that is brand new, less than 1 hour total. If you were to listen to both, you would be astounded at how different they sound. The one that has been burned in has significantly more bass and slightly more treble and it is somewhat enjoyable to listen to. The new pair has a narrow band around the mid frequencies and just sounds like crap. It is not merely a psychological effect of the mind compensating for the lack in sound quality. Any wear due to use that you could examine in the microscope can be atributed to burn in.

 


What if you do not use the burned in Shures for a week or so. Do they then sound like the new ones again? The evidence suggests that woofers certainly and maybe other speakers will return to their original state if left to rest. That can take hours, days or even weeks.

post #38 of 304

time to rehash my post:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/468146/burn-in-myth/15#post_6338400

 

Burn-in is real (in dynamic trasnducer systems), both in a scientific and psychoacoustic sense. The use of pink or white noise depends on what scientific angle you take, whether it's the audible range angle (pink noise) or the even across all frequencies angle (white noise) but in the end, it doesn't matter.

post #39 of 304
Thread Starter 

I hear some unevenness in the pink noise while burn in, do i need to burn them in until the changes are gone?

post #40 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man View Post




You will have caught hell for the presentation of your facts, as opposed to the facts themselves, going by the above post.



I'm not a teacher, and im the dad of the users who need those facts.  The majority of people know perfectly well how to use Google and go search for information.  Call an electrician or expert up, call grado or sennheiser and ask them.  Its not hard and I really dont meant to come off like a jerk, but im not here to educate people repeatedly on the same subject.  Bottom line is if you cant hear the difference from a stock echoing set of headphones to one that is burnt in, i feel really bad for this person and dont know what else to say.  If you know even a small amount about capacitors or the innards of electronics, you would not question the reality and science behind burn in.  :\

post #41 of 304

re: bottom line

What a strange statement to make. What is the person who cannot detect 'burn-in' (if it is indeed detectable) actually missing in life?

 

re: questioning

I feel really bad for the person who doesn't question science. The ENTIRE point of science is to question the results of others (or one's own work) and then state and test new hypotheses.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post

I'm not a teacher, and im the dad of the users who need those facts.  The majority of people know perfectly well how to use Google and go search for information.  Call an electrician or expert up, call grado or sennheiser and ask them.  Its not hard and I really dont meant to come off like a jerk, but im not here to educate people repeatedly on the same subject.  Bottom line is if you cant hear the difference from a stock echoing set of headphones to one that is burnt in, i feel really bad for this person and dont know what else to say.  If you know even a small amount about capacitors or the innards of electronics, you would not question the reality and science behind burn in.  :\

post #42 of 304

The best way I can prove wiring needs time to work and learn how to transfer with maximum efficiency is to start up an old CRT TV.  Not only does the video fade into view, but the audio also fades up.  Taking a measured amount of time to reach peak performance without blowing up.  The same phenomena takes place inside all capacitors and headphones drivers and wiring.  Its not debatable.  Drivers not only need to learn how to transfer the electricity smoothly ( it transfers the same voltage from birth to fully burnt in but not with the same efficiency ), but the woofers and drivers that actually resonate and literally move back and forth are almost always stiff to begin with.  Much like a new car interior or catchers mit in baseball, it takes some time for it to learn how to move right.  And thats just the physical explanation that can been seen with the naked eye :\

 

the magnetic thing I spoke of is just my theory, but ever since I went to college for a few years studying acoustics and small circuits, I came up with this idea that the drivers and wiring in general produce a small electromagnetic field that will distort your music and experience, creating that a-typical echo effect most new headphones have that will disappear with time.   I studied and thought about it for years, what else could be causing this poor sound at first, then later gets noticeably better?  Well, the only thing i could come up with was magnetic distortion.  If you are willing to ruin your headphones, take a powerful magnet and hold it near your drivers housing and notice what happens.  Its almost the same effect but on a smaller scale and was caused by the inefficient transfer of electricity through the wiring, the adapter, and the drivers themselves.  Just my theory, but it makes sense to me.  Its just one of a few things that are part of the formula of burn in.

 

-poor energy transfer 

-magnetic distortion

-overly sensitive hearing as found in almost all audiophiles, able to pick up subtle difference normal people cannot

-subwoofers or diaphragm simply being new and stiff to begin with

 

the sad part is I am color blind partially.  I have trouble seeing shades of colors.  If its basic colors I can pick them out and say yes that is green, that is yellow ect ect.  I have trouble with shades, if its between green and yellow, I cannot tell which is which.  Shades of purple and blue are REALLY hard, as are shades of green and yellow.   This could be a first in audio theory, but Ive come up with the idea that there are actually shades of frequencies between each HTZ range the humans ear can pick up on.  Sure it could be the 10hz or w/e, everyone who isnt def can hear it, but in the mix of many other signals coming at your brain during any audio experience, audiophiles will pick up on each shade of the range that is audible.  Normal people cannot.  That shaded area of each frequency is where burn in comes from.  If you are color blind like me, you wont see it and will swear that it doesnt exist.  Just like there are times I swear by all things holy "that sign" is not purple.

 

does that make sense? lol srry, i started rambling a bit.


Edited by swbf2cheater - 10/10/10 at 7:11am
post #43 of 304

what colour does someone with synaesthesia experience pink noise as?

post #44 of 304

In the thread on my theory behind burn in I have changed my mind and think that it is not all in the head, instead there is a burn in with speakers. It would also appear that that burn in is audible, but blind testing is really needed to prove that.  Swbf2cheater, your next stage is to show how your idea of burn in is actually audible.

 

For all of the science and reality of burn in you need to show a link between change and audibility.


Edited by Prog Rock Man - 10/10/10 at 9:10am
post #45 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post

The best way I can prove wiring needs time to work and learn how to transfer with maximum efficiency is to start up an old CRT TV.


CRT TVs have a single thermionic valve (tube in US) right at the inputs for the Cathode Ray Tube and when you turn them on you are waiting for that valve to warm up.

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