Sabre Dac : MSB underestimate this chip ... Are they right?

Wow they flat out dogged the Sabre.

No doubt its the flavor of the month as far as dac chips go, a lot of hype for sure.

Yep the Sabre32 'datasheet' is a two-page marketing blurb. I'd get a DAC from other respected chip makers.

I respect MSB as a company and the technological merits they have achieved with digital front ends.  Their gear performs extremely accurate conversions. But I think this article is highly unprofessional, especially where they say, "Big Yawn."  They are making accusations and it sounds like they are confusing the "six bit DAC" mention in the white paper, but maybe they aren't.  Either way, unless they feel threatened they probably didn't need to write such a condescending article.

I own the Wyred 4 Sound DAC1 which has the Sabre Chip and in my opinion it is the best digital source I have heard to date in my system.  I have owned the Stello DA220 and Decware ZCD. I currently own the Monarchy NM24 and extensively auditioned the MHDT Havana.  All of these sources have gotten rave reviews on their own and the Wyred imo is  better than the Monachy and walks over the other three I listed. 

I don't really get the point of the article.  Price-wise the MSB stuff is in another class than any of the Sabre DACs I have seen from Peachtree, Eastern Electric and Wyred.  Folks that are seriously considering purchasing MSB products are not going to turn around and buy the Nova from Peachtree Audio.  Unless maybe they can't justify the price difference.  That may be the problem, at least for MSB, the Sabre DAC in a proper circuit is formidable

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ it sounds like they are confusing the "six bit DAC" mention in the white paper, but maybe they aren't.

That's also how I took it.

Delta Sigma DACs have taken over the market because they are a an efficient and low-cost solution that measures as well, or better than ladder DACs. MSB's one of the boutique, high-concept firms that can only ever claim a small marketshare. Nothing wrong with their products, but there's nothing magical about them either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciphercomplete 

I own the Wyred 4 Sound DAC1 which has the Sabre Chip and in my opinion it is the best digital source I have heard to date in my system.  I have owned the Stello DA220 and Decware ZCD. I currently own the Monarchy NM24 and extensively auditioned the MHDT Havana.  All of these sources have gotten rave reviews on their own and the Wyred imo is  better than the Monachy and walks over the other three I listed. 

 

I don't really get the point of the article.  Price-wise the MSB stuff is in another class than any of the Sabre DACs I have seen from Peachtree, Eastern Electric and Wyred.  Folks that are seriously considering purchasing MSB products are not going to turn around and buy the Nova from Peachtree Audio.  Unless maybe they can't justify the price difference.  That may be the problem, at least for MSB, the Sabre DAC in a proper circuit is formidable

Glad to see you're happy with the DAC1.

But here is someone who compared it to the R2R Audio-GD and preferred the latter: http://ravenda.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/audiogd-reference5/

 

If Sabre32 is that bad how on earth can an oppo bdp-83se bluray player! keep up with the DAC19 DSP so well

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciphercomplete 

I don't really get the point of the article.  Price-wise the MSB stuff is in another class than any of the Sabre DACs I have seen from Peachtree, Eastern Electric and Wyred.  Folks that are seriously considering purchasing MSB products are not going to turn around and buy the Nova from Peachtree Audio.  Unless maybe they can't justify the price difference.  That may be the problem, at least for MSB, the Sabre DAC in a proper circuit is formidable

My take is that there are two kinds of people who buy MSB product. Those who can afford the uber-high-end regardless of price, without blinking, and just want the "best" and those who could put together the money for a DAC IV Sig but who's ears need to justify that kind of expenditure - uber-enthusiast.

MSB running scared, or have an issue with ESS marketing literature...... Why they felt the need to post a page dedicated to denigrating a competitors DAC chip..... That a DAC can accept a 32 bit word length, that it has 32 bit dynamic range..... Blah, blah, blah..... Who really cares? The proof is in the listening - SQ, not marketing!

The ESS Sabre32 is a Delta-Sigma chip, albeit with some highly advanced built-in sampling/filtering which is probably why it sounds as good as it does. To my knowledge it isn´t a "true" 32-bit chip in the same sense a new R2R multi-bit chip could be if someone made one. This doesn´t mean it couldn´t outperform a 24-bit R2R chip like the PCM1704 though. Depends on the implementation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dura 

Glad to see you're happy with the DAC1.

But here is someone who compared it to the R2R Audio-GD and preferred the latter: http://ravenda.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/audiogd-reference5/

 

I haven't heard the Reference 5 but after hearing the Compass at a meet I have no doubt that it probably sounds phenomenal.  My only beef with that review is that his description matches mine exactly during my first days of ownership.  I was actually a bit disappointed as both the Monarchy and my Decware ZCD absolutely crushed Dac-1.  I gave it a few weeks and the thing completely blossomed.  I sold the Decware and spend about 70% percent of my time with the wyred and 30% with the Monarchy. 

The funny thing is that I am looking to purchase the AudioGD 19DF shortly for my computer rig.  Depending on how I like it I may end up buying one of their reference DACS for the main system.  AT that point a decision will have to be made as I have found it nearly impossible to split time between three digital sources.

AudioGD certainly isn't sleeping on the Sabre like MSB is.  I would love to hear this thing http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB7/NFB7EN.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ 

I respect MSB as a company and the technological merits they have achieved with digital front ends.  Their gear performs extremely accurate conversions. But I think this article is highly unprofessional, especially where they say, "Big Yawn."  They are making accusations and it sounds like they are confusing the "six bit DAC" mention in the white paper, but maybe they aren't.  Either way, unless they feel threatened they probably didn't need to write such a condescending article.

x2!!!

you need to sign NDA's to get the real datasheet and so, and yes this chip is about post-processing/filtering w/ mandatory ASRC upsampling...also the price of the top chips is really over the top.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry 

you need to sign NDA's to get the real datasheet and so, and yes this chip is about post-processing/filtering w/ mandatory ASRC upsampling...also the price of the top chips is really over the top.

Not so sure about the mandatory ASRC upsampling if you supply an external clock, in which case the upsampling is not mandatory.