Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › My Review of the Apex Pinnacle (and comparison to the 307a)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

My Review of the Apex Pinnacle (and comparison to the 307a) - Page 4

post #46 of 96

(as i was asking Todd & Pete before but these questions weren't addressed:)  how does the apex pinnacle sound with 307a tubes, vs the px4s shown at canjam? would you recommend one over the other, or is more just a personal choice/flavor sort of thing? could you describe the differences between the 307a amp and the apex pinnacle. the 307a is a fantastic amp, and the new one costs considerably more than it's expensive predecessor. i'm sure i'm not the only one wondering what accounts for the price differential.

post #47 of 96

I enjoy reviews and really appreciate all the work involved, but think that any review should start out with a simple generalised description of the circuitry of the component under review. I've read this entire thread, lots of adjectives and subjectivist impressions, but almost no technical information, My best guess is that we have a single ended two stage design, input transformer to handle either single ended or balanced inputs, a 6sn7 voltage amplifier with unspecified biasing, loading, and coupling. A  transformer coupled Sophia PX-4 dht for output duty, again with unspecified biasing, operating points, etc. And finally, a seperate B+ supply of unspecified type. I'm a big fan of Pete's work, and a little technical information would really be appreciated. I'm sure it's a wonderful amp. But would like to know why.

post #48 of 96

FrankCooter, I agree, more technical information would be of great benefit.

post #49 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCooter View Post

I enjoy reviews and really appreciate all the work involved, but think that any review should start out with a simple generalised description of the circuitry of the component under review...

 

I actually prefer the opposite.  I am not an engineer and do not care overmuch about the technicalities of this and that.  Stereo equipment is built to reproduce music.  That is its' sole purpose, and as such, the basis upon any review.

post #50 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4N6 View Post

 

I actually prefer the opposite.  I am not an engineer and do not care overmuch about the technicalities of this and that.  Stereo equipment is built to reproduce music.  That is its' sole purpose, and as such, the basis upon any review.


Fair enough if that’s your preference. I totally disagree though, a review without specs or measurements is as good as dunny paper, for me Davids review is more of an impression at best without any concrete foundation and lacks credibility. 

 

 

post #51 of 96

Unfortunately Head-fi isn't Stereophile. Or maybe that's fortunately? wink.gif

post #52 of 96

Honestly, technical information tells me almost nothing. By now, I've experienced too many audio products that supposedly measure perfectly, are made spectacularly with all the best parts, yet utterly fail to impress me when reproducing music. I'm guessing that the ratio of those that care more about specs than those looking to gather impressions for other like-minded audiophiles is relatively small.

post #53 of 96

Ahhhh, the old "subjectivist" vs. "objectivist" debate.  This could potentially turn an otherwise excellent thread into a pile of smoking dog manure.  Although I helped spur this along (for that I apologize), let's try to keep this to the topic at hand.

post #54 of 96

How about a return to on-topic posts? 

 

Thread pruned.

post #55 of 96

Dang, you erased the best part of the thread.  very_evil_smiley.gif

 

But back on topic, David and 4N6, did you try any\many other 6sn7 tubes, or just the stock tube?

post #56 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks View Post

Honestly, technical information tells me almost nothing. By now, I've experienced too many audio products that supposedly measure perfectly, are made spectacularly with all the best parts, yet utterly fail to impress me when reproducing music. I'm guessing that the ratio of those that care more about specs than those looking to gather impressions for other like-minded audiophiles is relatively small.

 

lmao i lmao'd

post #57 of 96

The trouble here is that the best specced equipment cannot account for the quality of the ears (and the brains behind them) being able to digest the output of the equipment.

Ears are the weakest link in the chain.

Ergo. if someone cannot differentiate different sounds/notes they usually scoff at those who can. Ditto with soundstage, timbre, reality of sound etc..

 

 

Pleas don't let the flame wars begin.......   eek.gifbasshead.giftongue_smile.gifconfused_face.gifdeadhorse.gif

post #58 of 96
Thread Starter 

Just want to say with all humbleness that if I myself understood what the specs and included parts really did for the sound I'd have included it.  It's not my place though since beyond the tubes than the SET design I really know very little about what's going on inside the amp.  I don't think this underqualifies my opinion of the sound though.  If anything, I am able to listen to the amp just from a musical perspective without any biases about the circuitry.  Please note that I don't think having an in depth understanding of circuitry designs weakens a person's opinion at all; obviously it just adds to it in a different context but I feel it could also create some preconceived biases (though I don't know for sure if everyone's mind works the way my own does - if they do, then understanding the specs of something will surely create some biases before I even listen).  My point is  that there may very well be extremely well designed amps which sound worse to me than more poorly designed amps, and that if I knew the inside configuration and understood what made it poorer than something else, it could actually detract  from my official opinion.  Fortunately I have great faith in Mr Millett's designs because enough people in the know have commended his understanding and workmanship.  On a listening level I've always been very pleased with every amp I've heard which was designed by him.  Having a reliable vendor such as TTVJ and the acclaim of other builders just adds to the whole equation, but certainly I enjoy the sound with or without any biases.

 

One day I do hope to learn more about amp circuitry because I believe that being an informed consumer is the best way to keep your wallet happy in this hobby.  However until then I will go solely with my ear and whatever little knowledge I can conjure up from reading other expert's opinions.  I'm glad that the false remarks were removed from this thread because someone quickly browsing through the thread may not have seen the progression and been unfortunately misled.


Edited by DavidMahler - 12/13/10 at 10:11pm
post #59 of 96



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCooter View Post

I enjoy reviews and really appreciate all the work involved, but think that any review should start out with a simple generalised description of the circuitry of the component under review. I've read this entire thread, lots of adjectives and subjectivist impressions, but almost no technical information, My best guess is that we have a single ended two stage design, input transformer to handle either single ended or balanced inputs, a 6sn7 voltage amplifier with unspecified biasing, loading, and coupling. A  transformer coupled Sophia PX-4 dht for output duty, again with unspecified biasing, operating points, etc. And finally, a seperate B+ supply of unspecified type. I'm a big fan of Pete's work, and a little technical information would really be appreciated. I'm sure it's a wonderful amp. But would like to know why.

 

Frank -

 

As an engineer, I would agree with you.  But as a commercial product, is it really in Todd and my best interest to fully describe the circuit?  Certainly this isn't done in mainstream high-end.  I can't imaging the big boys giving any details of the circuitry...

 

I guess I am more worried about predujicing a potential customer, more than revealing any "secrets".  

 

On the other hand, anybody can open the amp up and figure this out.  And I suppose it is better to post the real information rather than allow people's guessing to influence others opinions!

 

So...

 

The Pinnacle is a 2-stage SE amp, using 6SN7 with LED bias as the first stage, capacitor-coupled (copper foil PIO)  to the PX4, which uses conventional cathode bias (run at fairly low current and voltage) as the second stage.  Transformer coupled input and outputs, with switches (inputs) and relays (outputs) to control balanced and unbalanced connections.  Relays are used to switch the audio path, so the signal path is direct.

 

The HV power supply is SiC shottky rectified, RCRC filtered in the power supply box and another LC in the amp box.  Isolated supplies are used for the two PX4 filaments, which use a somewhat complex combination of CCS in the PS box, and CM filtering and finally shunt regulation in the amp box.  Another seperate regulated supply generates the 6.3V for the 6SN7 and 5V to supply the LEDs and relays. 

 

Two delay circuits sequence the B+ and output mute relays.  There are also protection circuits to prevent HV from being applied to the outputs, and also to kill any HV on the umbilical cable if either end is unplugged.  (I've been designing equipment for almost 30 years (!) so I understand the regulatory safety requirements).


Hopefully that answers some questions - that's about as much detail as I think I should give!

 

Pete

post #60 of 96

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmillett View Post

 

The HV power supply is SiC shottky rectified, RCRC filtered in the power supply box and another LC in the amp box.  Isolated supplies are used for the two PX4 filaments, which use a somewhat complex combination of CCS in the PS box, and CM filtering and finally shunt regulation in the amp box.  Another seperate regulated supply generates the 6.3V for the 6SN7 and 5V to supply the LEDs and relays. 

 


This paragraph made me happy for its sheer awesomeness.

 

Cary on.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › My Review of the Apex Pinnacle (and comparison to the 307a)