"Clapton" CD - Page 2

I got the Clapton CD today.  Curiosity got the better of me. 

I like "River Runs Deep" and "Everything Will Be Alright" which are the two songs with J.J. Cale

"How Deep Is The Ocean" is good too.  So is "Run Back To Your Side".

The vocal and overall sound in "Travelin' Alone" just sounds wrong due to mastering and EQ.

Sound quality on the album is inconsistent from song to song.  The two J.J. Cale songs being some of the better sounding songs on the album.  Overall sound quality I would rate as OK for a modern studio recording.  There's no demo quality songs on here.  Nothing you'd want to use to try out new gear.  Better mastering though than J.J. Cale's "Road To Escondido".

There's some odd EQ and processing going on in the mastering though.  A big clue is that the songs sound dull and bloated and confined on my Denon D2000 but lively and more spacious on my Grado SR325is.  This is much more of a Grado listening album than a Denon listening album.  If it was mastered right it should sound good on both the Denon and the Grado.  The music works better on the HD600 than the Denon, but the HD600 is still bringing out too much bass bloat.  The HD600 is still missing the edge that the Grado is able to bring out of the music.  The HD600 is doing its usual thing of smoothing things out while the Grado is doing its usual thing of bringing out any edgyness.  The music is better for the Grado and HD600 than the Denon.  It would be interesting to try a K701 with this album.  I like the sound of the album best with the Grado.

As a point of reference, I EQ the mids on my D2000.  I do a shelf EQ at around 2200 Hz to lower the treble by 1.5 dB on my SR325is with bowls.  I do no EQ for the HD600 cause the HD600 is just awesome like that.

The song "Run Back To Your Side" is growing on me.  I just cued it up again. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9pintube 

Slow Hand My Butt!

 

Landis, Reptile is a great revisit into Clapton's Records, of yesterday!  I pulled out "No Reason To Cry" this also is another EC classic blues style! I Love track6)  "Hello old Friend"........He's defiantly doing more jazz style of playing, Now, and I like it, but I love his earlier recordings (Got them ALL,on Vinyl)  any others??? 
 

I previewed all the songs on Amazon and nothing really made me want to buy "Clapton". Maybe it's because I'm not into jazz yet (or lounge music as some reviewer wrote).

But it's probably because it doesn't sound like the Clapton I know and love (which I guess I wouldn't be looking into anyway if it was someone else).

OT I just got Slowhand on SACD. Love my new player.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

I got the Clapton CD today.  Curiosity got the better of me. 

 

I like "River Runs Deep" and "Everything Will Be Alright" which are the two songs with J.J. Cale

"How Deep Is The Ocean" is good too.  So is "Run Back To Your Side".

The vocal and overall sound in "Travelin' Alone" just sounds wrong due to mastering and EQ.

 

I definitely agree with Travelin' Alone, BUT, it sounds much better than the original... Even if it was one of my favorites.

Quote:Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

There's some odd EQ and processing going on in the mastering though.  A big clue is that the songs sound dull and bloated and confined on my Denon D2000 but lively and more spacious on my Grado SR325is.  This is much more of a Grado listening album than a Denon listening album. 

Maybe the problem is with the Denons, I here those things are about as Pratty as a dishwasher

Quote:

Originally Posted by KneelJung 

Maybe the problem is with the Denons, I here those things are about as Pratty as a dishwasher

 

 

But this isn't the sort of music that should rely so much on a pratty presentation.  Quite the opposite actually.

I do like the explore the J.J. Cale.  I've got his "Anyway The Wind Blows" anthology set.  There's some good songs in there.

The Jerry Garcia Band does a neat version of After Midnight on "After Midnight: Kean College 2/28/80"  A 13 minute jam plus a reprise.

OK, I give up, what does "pratty" mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcat28037 

OK, I give up, what does "pratty" mean.

(Pace, Rhythm, And Timing)-y, apparently. PRAT is a stupid audiophile term. 

^ Thanks, I've never heard it before and couldn't fine a def anywhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by logwed 

(Pace, Rhythm, And Timing)-y, apparently. PRAT is a stupid audiophile term. 

I don't agree. PRaT has a definite "energy" imo. Some gear can easily get you emotionally involved with the music, others can't. It's a fun factor that's present, or isn't. Sometimes the decay of certain sounds-ime drums/percussion mostly-can sound hurried, or simply fake. The timing aspect in "PRaT" addresses this. It's a broad term based on many indefinite factors, but one that can kill many birds with one stone. PRaT is, in my mind, a marriage between "fun" and transparency (detail and accurate timbre) that still lends honesty to the recording. YMMV. I would say neither Grado's, nor Denon's are high on PRaT, but this may have something to do with their relative unlistenability to me.  PRaT = Planar, in other words.

I wanted to want this album but after listening decided to pass... I have many of his past great albums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz1 

So is this endemic of many recent CD's? I've been busy re-ripping my 500+ collection of CD's which I started to purchase since CD's first came out. I've got a chain of 3 CD drives cooking.  i certainly wince at some of my early CD's and have been looking for a remaster on a lot of them. Is the problem dynamic compression on the newer CD's? Still the AIFF rips sound better than their MP3 counterparts. It makes me weep about the money I've spent on iTunes downloads. I'm sure I'll suffer even more as I upgrade my current system. I am BTW having a great time getting to re-discover my older music still on CD's. My younger version had great taste in music
 

The sound of the Clapton CD isn't necessarily endemic of the modern mastering sound.  It is to a limited degree, but it doesn't adopt the full-on modern mastering studio sound.  It has some dynamics compression and some normalizing, but it hasn't been overdone to the extent that many modern masters do.  If you look at the waveform for the songs on the CD it isn't going to jump out at you as being too loud and too compressed.  It's actually very reserved for what passes as mastering the past decade.

What I think it suffers from is overproduction.  Too much studio production.  The sense that once it is all recorded digitally it can be edited and massaged in ProTools on the computer till it is perfect.  You end up with what the producer considers perfect, but the reality is the life has been produced out of it.  And that's the sense I get with Clapton.  The sound that is on the CD never existed in the actual studio recording room.  Nobody records "live in the studio" to even a limited degree any more.

It also suffers from what I consider to be a poor EQing of the master.  I don't like the overall sound.  I think that part is salvageable though.  If LFF is a Clapton fan he could do some re-EQing magic and get it to sound better.  It would require a different EQ process for each song though cause each song on the album sounds different and has a different sound.

Don't wince when you see you have an old mastering of an album.  Often the old masterings are actually preferred and sound better in a more musically enjoyable sense.  A remaster may be cleaner and crisper and have more punch, but overall not be as enjoyable to listen to.  My preference is to actually look for old masterings first and then after that to explore any remastered versions to see if the remaster is actually better.  Very often I end up preferring the old mastering.  Anything mastered after 2000 is suspect.  Anything recorded after 2000 is very suspect.  Something recorded and mastered in the 80's or early 90's is probably better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khbaur330162 

I don't agree. PRaT has a definite "energy" imo. Some gear can easily get you emotionally involved with the music, others can't. It's a fun factor that's present, or isn't. Sometimes the decay of certain sounds-ime drums/percussion mostly-can sound hurried, or simply fake. The timing aspect in "PRaT" addresses this. It's a broad term based on many indefinite factors, but one that can kill many birds with one stone. PRaT is, in my mind, a marriage between "fun" and transparency (detail and accurate timbre) that still lends honesty to the recording. YMMV. I would say neither Grado's, nor Denon's are high on PRaT, but this may have something to do with their relative unlistenability to me.  PRaT = Planar, in other words.

See, that's the problem with the concept of PRaT.  It's a vague feely concept.  What gets one person emotionally involved with the music is not necessarily what gets another person emotionally involved.  The D2000 is able to get me emotionally involved in the music I like to listen to with them, moreso than many headphones that are considered to have higher PRaT.  So it's all relative.  What gets me pratting my feet and my soul with the music is obviously not what gets you pratting your feet to the same degree.

As for planars.  I like the Thunderpants and LCD-2.  Either of those could replace my Denon and I'd be very happy.  In fact, I'd choose either of those headphones over a D7000 if I was to spend that much money on a headphone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

 

What I think it suffers from is overproduction.  Too much studio production.  The sense that once it is all recorded digitally it can be edited and massaged in ProTools on the computer till it is perfect.  You end up with what the producer considers perfect, but the reality is the life has been produced out of it.  And that's the sense I get with Clapton.  The sound that is on the CD never existed in the actual studio recording room.  Nobody records "live in the studio" to even a limited degree any more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

See, that's the problem with the concept of PRaT.  It's a vague feely concept.  What gets one person emotionally involved with the music is not necessarily what gets another person emotionally involved.  The D2000 is able to get me emotionally involved in the music I like to listen to with them, moreso than many headphones that are considered to have higher PRaT.  So it's all relative.  What gets me pratting my feet and my soul with the music is obviously not what gets you pratting your feet to the same degree.

I have to agrree with CaptFantastic. The Clapton CD is something I wanted to want but when I sampled it I was like, meh. Probably for the reason you cite Ham, the CD just has no real life to it. I dont get the whole PRaT thing either although I think my Porta Pro's are pretty PRaTty 

And since you brought up the d2000's with regard to PRaT my issue was the mids felt like they were dragging a stone rather than pulling a wagon, if that makes any sense. Ultimately though no phone is probably going to be able to breathe life into any music that doesnt have any to begin with.