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post #106 of 233

That is not true because the music on a regular cd is not in a digital file format and thus is subject to errors (such as jitter or scratches on the cd) and these errors reduce the fidelity.  Programs like EAC seek to remove this loss of informational fidelity by doing multiple reads on the cd.  Once the file is on a computer, then it can be reproduced bit perfect without loss of fidelity since computer files have error-correction.  A downloaded redbook-quality file would have more fidelity than a ripped version from a cd.

post #107 of 233

A CD is an optical digital data storage.

True, the CD contains the pure PCM stream, nevertheless this is bits and bytes, nothing else.

Every kind of digitial data storage is prone to errors and failure, not only CDs (some (CDs) more than others).

The CD format allows for some error recovery and correction, though not as much as on a ragular data file system, also true ...

But depending on the quality of the CD player used, there is some additional error checking done by the player.

 

I'm ripping my CDs with dbpoweramp and it does a checksum on the digital data and compares it with a database (see http://www.accuraterip.com/).

I think, if there are at least 5 (most there are 40 and more!) matches in the database for a CD than it is more than probable that the data is "correct".

Additionally the ripping is done (at least in my configuration) 3 times (can be configured to be more times).

If all 3 rippings have the same checksum too it is even more probable that the data is o.k., because it is improbable to get the same digital data errors repeatedly due to faults in the CD material.

 

True, you shouldn't just ripp the CD in one go (Burst Mode), because than you can NOT be sure that your ripped data is equal to the data on the CD.

 

The redbook-quality files for download have been produced too somehow, maybe even ripped if not taken from the original masters ...

 

And maybe you could even lose some bytes on the download way to your computer ;-)


Edited by xabu - 10/14/10 at 2:24pm
post #108 of 233
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegleg85 View Post

That is not true because the music on a regular cd is not in a digital file format and thus is subject to errors (such as jitter or scratches on the cd) and these errors reduce the fidelity.  Programs like EAC seek to remove this loss of informational fidelity by doing multiple reads on the cd.  Once the file is on a computer, then it can be reproduced bit perfect without loss of fidelity since computer files have error-correction.  A downloaded redbook-quality file would have more fidelity than a ripped version from a cd.

 

iTunes also comes with Error Correction for ripping CDs, but it is not enabled by default:

 

lossless.tiff
 

post #109 of 233

The iTunes ripped does not compare to a program such as XLD or EAC. If you want me to go into this more, I can, but until then I'll be lazy. 

post #110 of 233

This is a great thread, derailed by semi-technical babble about file formats and CD rips. There is NO way to compare the 16 bit and 24 bit files equally - at least none that anyone can agree on. There will ALWAYS be differences in volume, in anti-aliasing, and possibly in recording methods. Comparing ABX the two files will show differences, but not fairly comparable differences. 

 

So the whole 24/16 talk, while cute, is just talk between apples and reproduction apples - they look and taste similarly, but their manufacturing and production are different. There is NO way to make this story plausible unless you ignore the science. Ignoring the science will bring you to happy results one way or the other, but not imitate truth.

 

This has been debated ad nauseam, but if you want a pretty good read from the standpoint of a marketer and the standpoint of semi-scientists and regular joes, go to Hydrogenaudio's Linn 16/24 recordings thread.

post #111 of 233

I wrote

 

"... (presuming the download is also a lossless ripped CD) ...".

 

If a number of CDs with the same recording (based on the same master) are ripped lossless, the ripps will have exact the same digital data as the original CDs (errro recovery discussion see above). When ripping lossless there is no such thing as extra antialising or any other fiddling with the digital data.

 

Of course there will be always differences in individuell conversions of such digital data due to the algorithms used.

 

Of course there will be always differences in differently and independently sampled analog data.

post #112 of 233

Blah blah blah, why are we still talking about this crap?

post #113 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Kid View Post

Blah blah blah, why are we still talking about this crap?



E.g. (regarding 16/44.1 24/96 comparison) because one argument for the 801 is the native ability to play back 24/96 material whereas the 602 does downsampling? Well, let's listen some instead


Edited by xabu - 10/15/10 at 3:25am
post #114 of 233

Just a wild question. Because 602 will down sample to 24/48, has anyone down sample from 24/96 to 24/48 in the computer, prior loading into 602 ?  If that's what 602 likes, why not feed it 24/48 ?

post #115 of 233
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by david1978jp View Post

Just a wild question. Because 602 will down sample to 24/48, has anyone down sample from 24/96 to 24/48 in the computer, prior loading into 602 ?  If that's what 602 likes, why not feed it 24/48 ?


You certainly can, but it is not required nor do I see any benefit in doing so.  In fact, the genius of selecting the TDA1543 NOS DAC besides its low cost and performance is the ability to play back 24/96 or 24/88 encoded files while automatically downsampling them.  This helps me, for example, to share the same SDHC cards between my HM-801 and the HM-602 without having to worry about which card goes where and having to purchase additional cards.  Very cool, me thinks.

post #116 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp08 View Post




You certainly can, but it is not required nor do I see any benefit in doing so.  In fact, the genius of selecting the TDA1543 NOS DAC besides its low cost and performance is the ability to play back 24/96 or 24/88 encoded files while automatically downsampling them.  This helps me, for example, to share the same SDHC cards between my HM-801 and the HM-602 without having to worry about which card goes where and having to purchase additional cards.  Very cool, me thinks.

I think the file size of the 24/48 is half of the 24/96, it will save me some storage space. For your situation, it is nice 801 and 602 can share same SDHC card.
 

post #117 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Kid View Post

The iTunes ripped does not compare to a program such as XLD or EAC. If you want me to go into this more, I can, but until then I'll be lazy. 

 

i, for one, would be interested in what you have to say, though i don't want to derail this thread. feel free to respond wherever you feel is most appropriate, be it here, in a new thread, via pm, etc. thanks.

post #118 of 233

Auditioned the hm-602 yesterday. listened to it with the re-252, re-262 and the fischer audio dba-02 earphones.
Nope sir, it did not ring my bell! I am happy with my clip+ and re-252 combination.

post #119 of 233
post #120 of 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarabjitlehal View Post

Auditioned the hm-602 yesterday. listened to it with the re-252, re-262 and the fischer audio dba-02 earphones.
Nope sir, it did not ring my bell! I am happy with my clip+ and re-252 combination.


interesting & somewhat surprising. could you please tell us about in more detail. this may not be the right thread for it but i'd be very interested to hear your take on how those 3 iems compare. perhaps you could post it in these threads:

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/508839/hifiman-re262-initial-impressions

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/520496/review-hifiman-re-262

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/497262/review-fischer-audio-dba-02

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/484569/review-fischer-audio-s-dba-02

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