I prefer my TeraDak Chameleon over my DAC19DSP for LCD2, would getting a Reference 8 be unwise...

Before starting an endless DAC search, you should first get a "proper" transport to run your DACs from.

Running your dac19dsp from the old 16/48 usb input is not really a good idea. That usb input should not be used for critical listening with transparent gear but only as a temporary means of connection.

Here is a little anecdote. The past few days I have been using the Teralink X2 (instead of my jkeny's modified Hiface) in order to get a better understanding of the performance of the ADUM usb isolator. The chain I was listening to was : ADUM USB2ISO + Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable + Teralink X2 (w/ external power supply) + Oyaide DB-510 BNC + DAC19DSP

Yesterday, I was listening and all the sudden, I felt that the soundstage was collapsed and that it was lacking a little bit of the low level details I was having previously with the same set-up. The bass was also dryer and less extended. I restarted the dac19dsp to see if the problem wasn't coming from the dsp-1 (as the dsp-1 can do so weird things once in while like inverting the channels). The problem wasn't coming from the dac19dsp. After a little bit of searching I realized that at some point when moving around the Teralink X2 I switched the selector of the power supply from extra to usb. After turning the switch back to "extra" (i.e external power supply), everything fell into place.

IMO it doesn't make sense to go with the Ref8 when you don't even like the audio-gd house sound. Another user reported a similar experience to what you're hearing, but he had a Ref5. The Terarak is a NOS dac. Look into an MHDT Havana. It's also a NOS dac and even has a tube which should take you further in the direction of your listening preferences.

And that's another alternative:

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/TDAC.html

I've found only great reviews, and it's so cute :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountChoculaBot 

Yep, I had a feeling my crappy PC -> DAC19 connection was hurting it tremendously which is why I noted it.  Do you think getting a AGD Digital Interface would alleviate the problems I had listed (along with upgrading to a Ref8)?
 

The DAC19 has extremely transparent ACSS (current) output stages and is very revealing of the quality of the source material (recording) and transport.

Getting a good transport could alleviate the problems you listed above: the way you described your dac19dsp is the way I would describe the USB input vs. a good coaxial input.

However I can't make any specific comment on the A-GD Digital Interface as I haven't received my unit yet (should receive it next week).

From what you seem to be looking for, and from what I have read so far, it seems that either the A-GD DI or the Teralink X2 might steer the sound more to your liking. The Oyaide DB-510 (or DR-510) will also help to get a "thicker" sound than what you are experiencing so far from direct usb (the Oyaide is not a priority though given the high price and the necessity to have a proper transport to begin with).

In any case, it is a very bad idea to spend $1000+ on an upgrade if you hadn't tried yet a good transport. A good tranport won't go to waste as you will keep using it with the Valab, dac19dsp or any other DAC you might acquire in the future.

Some people are using $600+ Empirical Audio transports with their $200 valab (not even the Chameleon) and are very happy with the result. A USB converter would only go to waste if you plan to buy a DAC with a superior USB connection from Ayre, Wavelength, Weiss ... but those DACs don't come cheap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountChoculaBot 

Well the thing is that Audio GD seems to have two different "lines" of sound, the neutral and the musical.  I was just wondering if the musical line was tailored to fit my preferences and address the issues I was experiencing with their neutral line. 

 

And thanks for the suggestion on the Havana, looks very interesting.

From you description of the dac19dsp, it seems that you will more enclined to prefer the "musical" line.

Not everybody wants a truly colorless sound. My current set-up: battery powered Hiface+dac19dsp+custom ACSS+C2+ALO recabled T1s gives me a very resolving, neutral and colorless representation. If I were doing monitoring work, it would be a perfect set-up. However, for musical enjoyment, it is not what I am looking agetr. the sound is very (even too) dependant on the recording, with very little consistency from one track to another. That is why I put myself on the pre-order list of the LCD2 as I think that a slightly "thicker" representation would be preferable for my taste.

So in some ways, I totally get what you are after: getting a musical series A-GD DAC or a MHDT Havana might suit better your tastes and get closer to what you are looking after. But my only advice is to try a good usb converter before starting rolling DACs: it will cost you less and it will probably benefit your future DACs.

I have the LCD-2 on DAC19DSP. I think you should as mentioned stay away from the Audio GD Dacs. Transports and such are unlikely to transform it if it´s not to your liking.

I have never caught the LCD-2 sounding thin or to bright on my system with any of the amps I tried for vocals. Never ever. What amp do you use?

I am looking into the Ref9 but I am afraid I will find it to warm and to rolled in the treble for the LCD-2

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountChoculaBot 

 

I use a Maple Tree Ear+ HD Super II.  It's got the stereotypical "tube" sound, which is why I'm confused Maple Tree + Dac19 = the somewhat cold/sterile sound I'm getting.  Well, compared to the Chameleon, anyway.

An interesting observation. I haven't gotten around to doing a proper comparison yet, but I've found the Super II to be noticeably less lush and "tube-like" than the standard Ear+ HD. That may be part of your experience.

Magic 8-ball says: you definitely have a MHDT Havana in your future. I think it's just the ticket for the sound signature you're after.

I have been told the musical line is basically the same. Doesn´t depart much from neutrality http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/511986/dac3se-vs-dac19-dsp-vs-everything-else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountChoculaBot 

I'm in a bit of a conundrum at the moment: I'd like to upgrade my gear, but I have *no* idea what to buy anymore.  Between my current two DACs, the Teradak Chameleon, and the DAC19DSP, there is NO CONTEST at all which I prefer: the Chameleon.  I was originally going to upgrade to a Reference 8 DAC, but based on my current preferences I feel I'm risking wasting $1700.

 

 

I have a modified Chameleon, jkenny is building for me an I2S input board, based on the Hiface for the usb input (Salamander). It will be powered by lifepo4 batteries, as will the digital input board on the Chameleon to improve the on board clock accuracy for the spidf input. I agree with slim.a that a low jitter source is crucial, and especially so for NOS dacs like the Chameleon that dispense with the sort of heavy duty jitter correction you find in products like the Audio-Gd dacs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wood 

 

I have a modified Chameleon, jkenny is building for me an I2S input board, based on the Hiface for the usb input (Salamander). It will be powered by lifepo4 batteries, as will the digital input board on the Chameleon to improve the on board clock accuracy for the spidf input. I agree with slim.a that a low jitter source is crucial, and especially so for NOS dacs like the Chameleon that dispense with the sort of heavy duty jitter correction you find in products like the Audio-Gd dacs.

Does that mean you can use a USB to SPDIF converter (the hiface in this case) with the Valab? How can it handle the 32bit of the Hiface output?

Also, wasn't USB input supposed to better than SPDIF on this DAC?

Thanks

realmassy, Direct from my bog standard pc card, the usb is better than the spidf. But from my CD player I would say the spidf is better. So I guess a good usb-spidf converter should sound better than direct usb, (from my pc that is).

I have tried the async Musiland USD 01, from pc usb to spidf, and there are improvements in clarity, bass control, soundstage depth etc, over the direct usb, but ultimately the sound is sterile, thinner and tonally unbalanced, compared to usb direct. The best combo that works for me is the diypardise  Ultravox adum galvanic isolator on the usb. This is still no where as "clean" as the Musiland device, but it retains that musicality that that the Chameleon has, but also provides a cleaner sound than usb direct.

So in this case using any Async usb-spidf device is no guarantee, and I much prefer the less 'accurate' but engaging sound of the galvanic isolator on the usb . 

(oh and yes you can use a Hiface on the Valab, but not with an adum isolator.)

Cheers Wood!

Definitely the last thing I want is a sterile and thin sound, so thanks for the advise. I'll look into the galvanic isolator.