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Testing for SPEED in IEM's - please participate in my test! [speed-metal / visual-kei /... - Page 7

post #91 of 120
6/7/11 at 12:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 

WOW...yes, I know what you mean biggrin.gif

 

There is a lot of VK out there that is such good music its worth listening to anyway. Versailles is definitely one of them. Malice Mizer is as well. X Japan was at last year's lollapalooza, they practically started the genre alongside Buck-Tick even though their image never really strayed from hair metal save for the animal faces and Hide's pink hair.

 

A lot of the newer stuff makes me wonder whether or not some bands know how to write music though, or if they even do.

 

SUG/Lolita23ku/Zoro come to mind among others...I really do enjoy there pv's and keep mp3 dscogs of all their stuff but they almost seem like a brash attempt by big labels to take some of the market...

 

Edit: Yes I know SUG/Zoro are actually oshare kei


Edited by Sylverant - 6/7/11 at 6:09pm
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post #92 of 120
6/7/11 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

Versailles - Silent Knight [Live] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUQi3hV3eM0&fmt=18&t=2m50s

 

 

Getting to the point, this is speed-metal, so naturally, I'm testing for speed, I know every note by heart (okay, not EVERY note <img data-cke-saved-src=" tongue.gif="" width="" />" class="bbcode_smiley" height="" src="http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies//tongue.gif" title="<img data-cke-saved-src=" tongue.gif="" width="" />" class="bbcode_smiley" height="" src="http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies//tongue.gif" title="<img data-cke-saved-src=" tongue.gif="" width="" />" class="bbcode_smiley" height="" src="http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies//tongue.gif" title="<img data-cke-saved-src=" class="bbcode_smiley" height="" src="http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies//tongue.gif" title=":p" width="" />" width="" />" width="" />" width="" />), and I'm testing if they can reproduce every note.

The intensity builds-up more and more after 2:45, so it's really fun to listen to (+I like the song).

 

Second, it's more about the isolation of the notes than the actual notes themselves, I listen for the edge of the notes, the start and finish, or the *air* inbetween, (the perceived millisecond of silence).

What I mean is that with super-fast passages like this (16ths at 220bpm or something? haven't checked) the notes don't sound isolated anymore, they're presented in smooth texture of 12 notes in a single sound, instead of 12 sounds, because the decay of the first note overlaps the second, and so on.

 

Here is an example of decay and attack which I drew in paint.

 

live version (acoustics and instrument-seperation are excellent in this one, yes even on youtube, make sure you use my link with the fmt=18 in it!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUQi3hV3eM0&fmt=18&t=2m50s

 

3:00 - this is where it starts

 

3:59 - hell yeah

 

4:06/4:11 - huh? that doesn't sound like an elec. guitar, it sounds like a damn flute! I hate you, smooth IEM's!

 

4:23 - the best part, the elec.guitar sonata, sounds like a couple of talented flute players to me though (on these bad IEM's).

 

 

 

 

Now, for those interested, if you listened to these tracks, please rate your earphones!

 

1 ~ 11 on speed,

1 ~ 5 on instrument-seperation

+ 1~5 on reverb

 

(second one is optional, but this is also useful to know, applies only to the live version recording).

 

1 is milkshake, 11 is masterpiece, every note is it's own island, you can hear every raindrop in the sky.

 

1 is mono, 5 is you can hear the exact instrument location, and even the different parts of the drum, and the size of the stadium and the echoes off the walls and some yells and murmurs in the audience! only give 5 if you can hear all of that!)

 

and list which IEM's/earbuds/headphones you are using! Thanks!

 

 

 

extra rating secion added

 

 

Reverb - x / 5

 

1/5 = bathroom

 

2/5 = car

 

3/5 = studio

 

4/5 = club

 

5/5 = stadium

 

6/5 = horizon

 

 

Full-size headphones are better than IEM's in this department, but there are still good earbuds and IEM's when it comes to this, especially as technology and research advances, which goes hand-in-hand with the increasing popularity of IEM's these days.

 

I would give a "normal" IEM without fancy drivers or housing a 3/5, faithful reproduction of a studio recording, but failing to emerge the user in a club atmosphere or live concert type reverb.

 

Just like a car audio system can have amazing sound quality, so can an IEM with a limited spatial field, so 2/5 does not mean it's a bad IEM.

 

If I can close my eyes and feel like I am at a club, or a live concert, that is one hell of an IEM, so if you decide to give a 4 or a 5 please do it justifyingly!

 

Note:  There is a difference between hearing a club atmostphere, and feeling a club atmosphere.

For example, someone calls you on their mobile phone, you can hear if they are in the bathroom, a car, a studio or at a club, but you don't feel like you are there with them.

_

 

Note 2: a good way for testing a club atmosphere with side-by-side comparisons of earphones is using the audio player foobar, installing the impulse convolver,

and then selecting the impulse file "club b.wav" and adjusting the mix (25% or so is ok), you can download club-b.wav here

 

 

Thanks for this, Kiteki, the live version without youtube compression was eye-opening. I actually need to update my review of my MG6Pro customs, they did phenomenally on all counts--some of what I thought might be a speed issue with the death-metal I listened to previously was actually just the poor youtube recording I used. Your test really helped.  

 

 

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post #93 of 120
6/7/11 at 10:41pm

Honestly, apart from the guitars I don't find it a very good sample for a speed test.  You're focused on a narrow frequency range and there really isn't that much complex layering going on where they need to be dissected IMO.  The drummer is really slow as hell too.  I don't think it's a very comprehensive test of driver speed.  I'll find you something better Kunlun.

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post #94 of 120
6/7/11 at 10:52pm

incase you havent been introduced to grooveshark yet, you should check it out. here's a link to silent knight. It sounds way better than the youtube version; bass is way easier to detect and reveals a lot more texture  ^_^

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post #95 of 120
6/7/11 at 11:11pm

holy cow. i love versailles. nice to see other fans.

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post #96 of 120
6/8/11 at 1:45am

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleki View Post

incase you havent been introduced to grooveshark yet, you should check it out. here's a link to silent knight. It sounds way better than the youtube version; bass is way easier to detect and reveals a lot more texture  ^_^


Thanks!  Much better sample, nice sitetoo!  He's still too slow for a speed reference IMO.  Seems kind of an 1/8th note off at times.  He has a laid back Sennheiser HD650 quality which is fine if you think that meshes well w/ the band's sound.

 

Let me introduce you to Mike Portnoy and Neil Peart. 

 

Neil Peart in 1080P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHkucr1jJpQ

 

Mike Portnoy (formerly of Dream Theater and Avenged Sevenfold frown.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBnK7fC4yj0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfydR1CQ76k

 

Here's Jimmy 'the Rev' Sullivan (RIP)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIRNdveLnJI

Recording 'Almost Easy' w/ Double Rides

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfD34LOrnNk

Drum Track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUP8kWhQbHc

 

A7X comparo of Rev and Portnoy on 'Nightmare'.  Rev died before album release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyuPu5Co4yM&feature=related

 

A pretty nice Dream Theater track for speed and layering.  I forgot to mention that obviously we aren't just talking speed but imaging and clarity also which is more than just driver speed. 

http://grooveshark.com/#/s/This+Dying+Soul/1VBdHL?src=5

 

 


Edited by Anaxilus - 6/8/11 at 1:53am
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post #97 of 120
6/8/11 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 


Thanks!  Much better sample, nice sitetoo!  He's still too slow for a speed reference IMO.  Seems kind of an 1/8th note off at times.  He has a laid back Sennheiser HD650 quality which is fine if you think that meshes well w/ the band's sound.

 

Let me introduce you to Mike Portnoy and Neil Peart. 

 

Neil Peart in 1080P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHkucr1jJpQ

 

Mike Portnoy (formerly of Dream Theater and Avenged Sevenfold frown.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBnK7fC4yj0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfydR1CQ76k

 

Here's Jimmy 'the Rev' Sullivan (RIP)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIRNdveLnJI

Recording 'Almost Easy' w/ Double Rides

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfD34LOrnNk

Drum Track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUP8kWhQbHc

 

A7X comparo of Rev and Portnoy on 'Nightmare'.  Rev died before album release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyuPu5Co4yM&feature=related

 

A pretty nice Dream Theater track for speed and layering.  I forgot to mention that obviously we aren't just talking speed but imaging and clarity also which is more than just driver speed. 

http://grooveshark.com/#/s/This+Dying+Soul/1VBdHL?src=5

 

 

Kiteki mentioned bypassing youtube's compression, is that possible with these, or does grooveshark have a higher quality available? (N.B. I haven't listened yet, just thought I'd ask)
 

 

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post #98 of 120
6/8/11 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post



Kiteki mentioned bypassing youtube's compression, is that possible with these, or does grooveshark have a higher quality available? (N.B. I haven't listened yet, just thought I'd ask)
 

 


grooveshark is user supported, so bitrate varies. the funny thing is, a great majority of electronic and complex songs are 192khz+; it would be an interesting study to see how much money the average person spends on equipment per genre tongue.gif
 

 

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post #99 of 120
6/8/11 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Kiteki mentioned bypassing youtube's compression, is that possible with these, or does grooveshark have a higher quality available? (N.B. I haven't listened yet, just thought I'd ask)


You can grooveshark any of those songs like my last link but for Dreamtheater.  Some of the youtube links are concerts, demos and recording sessions.  Just enjoy them for what they are.  

 

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post #100 of 120
6/10/11 at 11:19am

I don't know what people mean when they talk about HD videos being better. I've downloaded quite a few through sites that simply pull them from youtube as they are and I've never encountered higher audio bitrates than 130ish AAC-LC when viewed in encoding software like mediacoder. The encoding certainly sounds clean and enjoyable enough though.

 

Edit


Edited by Sylverant - 6/11/11 at 3:52pm
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post #101 of 120
6/11/11 at 8:05pm
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylverant View Post

^ beautiful guitar. This thread is just an excuse to push visual kei huh?

 

lol...I Iove Versailles, I'd test my K271 and HD560 with your test but am not really satisfied with the youtube videos sq and feel it wouldn't be fair to test it with the L-PCM from the concert DVD biggrin.gif

 

If you just want to hear somthing beautiful you should check out this live Malice Mizer song:

 

AEGEN ~Sugisarishi Kaze to Tomo ni  LIVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOAyHjdyB8&fmt=18 

 

The live version is beautiful, in the original CD track the guitars play through to the end; in the live they cut off and Gackt sings slower. The result is quite powerful.

Sadly my DVD ISO clips around 1 minute 30 seconds into aegen, my favorite song... frown.gif


Thanks for bumping the thread and your kind words.

 

Yes, we really need L-PCM from the DVD.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Thanks for this, Kiteki, the live version without youtube compression was eye-opening. I actually need to update my review of my MG6Pro customs, they did phenomenally on all counts--some of what I thought might be a speed issue with the death-metal I listened to previously was actually just the poor youtube recording I used. Your test really helped.  

 


You're welcome =) and wow, cool, I'm glad it helped so much. =)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcasey25raptor View Post

holy cow. i love versailles. nice to see other fans.


Sure =)

 

___________

 

@ other comments, yes the quality or track itself isn't perfect, and the results can be taken with a little salt, listening sessions aren't an exact science.

I didn't analyze different tracks I just intuitively chose this one, it's just a fun track and it works, regardless of how it sounds if you listen to it a few times on different IEM's you'll get used to it, whether the drummer is an 1/8th note off or not, Anaxilus ;)


I was going to make a "testing for speed in IEM's part II" with a better suited electronic track but I haven't found the perfect one or spent time on that yet.

 

 

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post #102 of 120
6/12/11 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 

Well, I just listened to Silent Knight on my Stax.

 

I got the grooveshark thing working with this link http://grooveshark.com/#/album/Prince+and+Princess/3354021 that's the studio version, for the album, it sounds narrower and it's been mastered.

 

I still like the live version better, when you use the suffix in this link to bypass the youtube quality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUQi3hV3eM0&fmt=18&t=2m50s 

 

Interestingly, after listening with my favorite gear, the ck10, Stax SR-404, and EX700 all sound vastly different.

 

The Stax have the best atmospheric range (yes I like using terms on a whim that seem most fitting at the time =)), transparency, air, and revealment (as in, they reveal lower quality bitrates or recordings the best, - then ex700, then ck10 - which I find quite good at reproducing lo-fi), the ck10 have the best imaging, locational cues (almost like listening to two recordings at once), and speed (very close to the Stax, however I perceive the ck10 as faster) in the ck10 I can perceive each note as it's own island the best, this is quite an addictive feeling and increases the sense of rhythm.

EX700 - while technically not up to scratch with the previous two - as usual -> they convey the emotion of the song the best.  The drums sound realistic with all the fine texture and shimmer you want to hear, and the electric guitar is the most alive, full of splendour and spirit.

 

After this mini-review, I moved on to a 24/96 live recording in 2744kbps of acoustic rock, and I have pretty similiar feelings there, I can extend the review a bit if anyone is interested, I just sold/traded the ck10 and Stax so not much time left, but I've spent half a year or so with them all up.

 

 

 

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post #103 of 120
6/12/11 at 6:32pm

thanks for this speed test. you just made me love my merlins even more!!!! could hear ever practically everything clearly every thump individually =)

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post #104 of 120
8/15/11 at 12:12am

Speed: 8/11

 

I-S: 2/5

 

I'm using TF10's. I could hear every note, but it all sounded like it was being played from pretty much the center of the stage, yet layered, like the band was playing in a single line front to back. I could place instruments front to back but most instruments seemed to be coming from the center, with exception of the guitar solo and the drums which seemed slightly off center.

 

Then again, I'm probably full of ****.

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post #105 of 120
8/16/11 at 7:57pm
Thread Starter 

I thought the TF10's were supposed to be good at positioning, oh well whatever. =p

 

I'm thinking about getting the "TF10 killer" this week, made by Thousand Sounds in China... if all goes well.

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