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The Little Dot Mk IV / SE Impressions Thread - Page 31

post #451 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

I haven't heard the D7100 - but I'm actually wondering if the LD MKIV is actually a good match for them.  The D7100 has an impedance of 25 ohms, whilst I think the LD output impedance is more in the 40-50 ohm bracket (from memory).  it's an OTL anyway - so the high output impedance is going to better suit headphones with a higher impedance.  What I'm suggesting is that due to an incorrect damping factor, you may find that the LD MKIV (or any OTL tube amp) could end up playing havoc with the D7100's frequency response due to poor damping.

 

You may be far better trying a hybrid tube amp with a lower output impedance.

 

If you wanted to go Little Dot - you could get the DAC_II (which would give you DAC + solid state amp), and then add a hybrid like the LD MK1+.

 

Just a thought ......

+1

post #452 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

I haven't heard the D7100 - but I'm actually wondering if the LD MKIV is actually a good match for them.  The D7100 has an impedance of 25 ohms, whilst I think the LD output impedance is more in the 40-50 ohm bracket (from memory).  it's an OTL anyway - so the high output impedance is going to better suit headphones with a higher impedance.  What I'm suggesting is that due to an incorrect damping factor, you may find that the LD MKIV (or any OTL tube amp) could end up playing havoc with the D7100's frequency response due to poor damping.

 

You may be far better trying a hybrid tube amp with a lower output impedance.

 

If you wanted to go Little Dot - you could get the DAC_II (which would give you DAC + solid state amp), and then add a hybrid like the LD MK1+.

 

Just a thought ......

 

 

Solid advice!!!

 

Currently rockin' the LD I+ with some 'Sones

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*****Off-Topic... but why do my pics look so horrible and fuzzy lately?...lol.......Whether I upload directly from PC or hosted from url.....Look nothing like the original...I've tried different upload sizes etc. with no luck......What am I doing wrong?????*****.......FIXED  FIXED FIXED

 

Thanks to TD....:beerchug:

 

I've seen pics on here from phones that look like HD.....

 

***Where ya at TD?.....All your uploaded pics look kick-@ss!!!!!!**

 

 

Even with a PrtScn shot with Foobar looks fuzzy: FIXED FIXED FIXED

 


Edited by HeatFan12 - 5/15/14 at 8:42pm
post #453 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

I haven't heard the D7100 - but I'm actually wondering if the LD MKIV is actually a good match for them.  The D7100 has an impedance of 25 ohms, whilst I think the LD output impedance is more in the 40-50 ohm bracket (from memory).  it's an OTL anyway - so the high output impedance is going to better suit headphones with a higher impedance.  What I'm suggesting is that due to an incorrect damping factor, you may find that the LD MKIV (or any OTL tube amp) could end up playing havoc with the D7100's frequency response due to poor damping.

 

You may be far better trying a hybrid tube amp with a lower output impedance.

 

If you wanted to go Little Dot - you could get the DAC_II (which would give you DAC + solid state amp), and then add a hybrid like the LD MK1+.

 

Just a thought ......


Right now i have Yulong D100 MKII + D7100, but it cant bring all the D7100 to my ear, I said that because my ex-Dac HeadRoom ultra sound better with D7100.

I also choice the LD amp based on some reviews and because the D7100 sound better with hybrid amp IMHO.

 

In fact im n00b about amps and dacs and and i just need best DAC + AMP for D7100 ?

 

Thank you

post #454 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by koc View Post
 


Right now i have Yulong D100 MKII + D7100, but it cant bring all the D7100 to my ear, I said that because my ex-Dac HeadRoom ultra sound better with D7100.

I also choice the LD amp based on some reviews and because the D7100 sound better with hybrid amp IMHO.

 

In fact im n00b about amps and dacs and and i just need best DAC + AMP for D7100 ?

 

Thank you

 

Well I just checked the Yulong D100 II specs - and it definitely has more than enough power for the D7100, as well as having a very good dac section (comparable to the Benchmark DAC1 if reviews can be taken as granted).  They don't list output impedance - but I'd be surprised if it was much more than 2ohms via the headphone out (they advertise ideal for 16-600 ohm), so it should be a good match for your Denons.

 

All I'm suggesting is that an OTL amp is likely not going to be a good match.  If you want to use a tube amp - aim for a hybrid.

 

Maybe best to checkout some existing D7100 threads - you might get better advice?  Like I said - I don't own these headphones, so I can't give you direct advice on what works.

http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?search=denon+d7100+amp

post #455 of 551
Thank you Brooko for your help.
post #456 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbmiller View Post
 

Thanks
so I suppose we are talking about the driving tube now.
Does the power to have strapping options too? And do you have any similar information on its modes or whatever?

 

Which tube has more impact on the sound?

 

Hi bbmiller and all you guys in this thread.

 

I just thought I'd hop over from the Little Dot Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide and see what's cookin' here... and would like to pass on a summary of what we have been up to in our quest to see how far the LDs can be pushed, without blowing them up, lol! Hopefully there might be something of interest/use to some of you who want to get the most out of your MKIV SE.

 

I personally am a fairly late-comer (1yr ago) to a bunch of really great, friendly, helpful enthusiasts who have spent a great deal of time, effort (and money!) experimenting with a range of LDs and who have made some pretty amazing discoveries over time regarding which tubes can be substituted - with or without modification - for stock. And my first bold statement is that ALL, and especially my IV SE, can give results way above stock.

 

I will give more details below, but perhaps I can first whet your appetite with a few  pics :

 

 

 

 

The drivers are Siemens C3gS's - which are plug 'n play with a C3g to 6AK5 adapter available on ebay ( mine are my own, made with pure silver wire, 'cos I love silver!) and on EF95 setting.

These gave the first MASSIVE improvement - even over the Voskhods, and our later use of the 6DJ8 family (with mods). We found (one of) the best straight replacements was the tall-bottle 6HM5, which beat the Voskhods easily.

Other guys have also found great improvements using 6SN7s as drivers, but require more adaptation still.

 

The next almost equally huge improvement came from different POWER tubes...YES! - contrary to established belief. Further info below...

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post
 


Yes that is the information for the driver tubes.

 

There are no strapping options or different modes for the power tubes. The stock 6H30Pi's are very good, you can try to seek out the Soviet "Super Tube" 6Н30П ДР, this is supposed to be the best tube you can put in an unmodified LD. On eBay they were demanding at one point upwards of $200 for real ones, beware though as there are plenty of fakes for sale as well. I have never head these tubes so I can't comment on the sound.

 

I could not tell you which would have more impact as I have never changed the power tubes on my amplifier, that is a question you should ask in the Rolling Thread.

 

Please, please, please DO NOT waste your money on the 6N30P-DR (TD's characters are strictly more correct!). I spent £200 - yes pounds :frown: - on a pair, and while they gave a little more than the stock 6H30P, no way were they worth that sort of money. For MUCH less, you can achieve good results from (once again) the 6SN7 family. These too are plug 'n play, using a 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter from ebay. For these, and the other drivers, you will need to remove all the brass bits to accommodate the adapters. And again, on EF95 setting.

 

In the above photos, first I had a Psvane CV181-TII (basically a 6SN7) in the left channel and a 7N7 (which needs a different adapter to the 6SN7) in the right. Yet again, going against previous findings, the mix gave amazing results - each filled the missing parts of the other, without any clash or imbalance.

 

 

But finally came a leap to equal that of the C3gS drivers... 6AS7G's AS POWERS!...unfortunately, this is not so easy to achieve - they require a 2.5A heater power supply, as opposed to the LD's native .9A. So, therefore, if you have never held a screwdriver, pliers, or soldering iron - or can't get a savvy friend to do the job for you - I'm afraid you probably will not be able to experience the humble MKIV/SE to a level that is totally beyond belief...and I'm not foolishly/ignorantly overstating the facts. I never dreamt my Senn HD 650s could sound as they are now doing.

 

If you are interested, and would like to know more, just have a look on the rolling thread mentioned previously. I can only hope this change would/could be possible for at least some of you. Or at the very least, give the easier-to-adapt 6SN7 (or 7N7) a try - I don't think you would be disappointed. Thankfully they are ALL good, and not too expensive... and if you  are fairly flush, they will definitely sing MUCH better driven by the C3g (preferably the 'S' version, if possible).

 

ps. The 6AS7G/6080 tube draws a lot of current, and an earlier concern was the strain on the cathode resistors. With help from TrollDragon, pointing out the ones to look for (after artsi's warning), I monitored the outside temp of same and although much higher than stock 29C, after 1 hour they slowly reached 56/57C and then just 59C after 4 hours' continuous play - which I believe is way below max operating value - so it looks like all should be OK. And I have put a good few more hours on my baby...she gets somewhat warmer than before but hey, those tubes get HOT! And no nasty surprises as of yet. The only ones being more mind-blowing ones with each different test track I have been using for a long time now. I cannot overstate the level to which these power tubes have taken my LD.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


In any amp I've rolled tubes in the driver or input tubes have more effect than the power tubes.

 

Hi Chris J.

 

As mentioned above, until the 6AS7G especially, that was the case...but no longer. The versatility of these LDs - especially the MKIV SE - is quite amazing. This has been demonstrated time and again by the guys on the rolling thread.

 

And all I can say is that if I had taken TD's advice to "stay away" from said thread, I would have missed this opportunity to achieve a level of sound reproduction I NEVER thought possible, without spending thousands of pounds, lol!

 

 

Well folks, I hope I haven't put you all in 'overload' mode, but at least given you "food for thought"...

 

Cheers, and happy rolling?!

post #457 of 551

post #456  directly above the in my browsing of this thread appears with the words "This post is hidden because the user is in your block list. (Click to show)"

 

OK I was finding that post very very interesting and was thinking of giving a questioning in depth reply after perhaps others of you replied, but what does this mean now? Can I address this uses thread by simply clicking to show and start replying? Would that get me blocked myself? Is it OK to quote this blocked user from the blocked reply itself without being blocked myself? Is what this blocked user is saying discredited? Can I find out the reason he is blocked? Is it OK to address this user in a private message? Should I feel whatever he tells me in a private message reply to be discredited?

post #458 of 551

Hi bbmiller, and for anyone else - I hope!

 

I didn't quote you, because it looks like something really weird - and VERY discomforting - has happened here.

 

As far as I know, I have done nothing to cause such a 'block'...please take a look on the rolling guide to put your mind at rest concerning myself.

 

This certainly does need sorting...

post #459 of 551

@bbmiller 

 

Nothing sinister.  Only you can block a member.  Click the link to show the post, then if you hover your mouse over hypnos1 name in the post, you should get a menu.

 

Here's how mine looks:

 

 

Here's how yours probably looks (I just temporarily blocked hypnos1)

 

 

 

Simply click "unblock member" and everything will be right with the world again ;) 

 

You'll need to refresh the page to see the post after you've unbl;ocked.  My guess  is that you clicked to block him by accident.

post #460 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

@bbmiller 

 

Nothing sinister.  Only you can block a member.  Click the link to show the post, then if you hover your mouse over hypnos1 name in the post, you should get a menu.

 

Here's how mine looks:

 

 

Here's how yours probably looks (I just temporarily blocked hypnos1)

 

 

 

Simply click "unblock member" and everything will be right with the world again ;) 

 

You'll need to refresh the page to see the post after you've unbl;ocked.  My guess  is that you clicked to block him by accident.

Yes Right. thanks! 

post #461 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

@bbmiller
 

Nothing sinister.  Only you can block a member.  Click the link to show the post, then if you hover your mouse over hypnos1 name in the post, you should get a menu.

Here's how mine looks:




Here's how yours probably looks (I just temporarily blocked hypnos1)




Simply click "unblock member" and everything will be right with the world again wink.gif  

You'll need to refresh the page to see the post after you've unblocked.  My guess is that you clicked to block him by accident.

Useful for members of the Science Forum!
Edited by Chris J - 5/19/14 at 4:55am
post #462 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnos1 View Post

Hi bbmiller and all you guys in this thread.

I just thought I'd hop over from the Little Dot Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide and see what's cookin' here... and would like to pass on a summary of what we have been up to in our quest to see how far the LDs can be pushed, without blowing them up, lol! Hopefully there might be something of interest/use to some of you who want to get the most out of your MKIV SE.

I personally am a fairly late-comer (1yr ago) to a bunch of really great, friendly, helpful enthusiasts who have spent a great deal of time, effort (and money!) experimenting with a range of LDs and who have made some pretty amazing discoveries over time regarding which tubes can be substituted - with or without modification - for stock. And my first bold statement is that ALL, and especially my IV SE, can give results way above stock.

I will give more details below, but perhaps I can first whet your appetite with a few  pics :









The drivers are Siemens C3gS's - which are plug 'n play with a C3g to 6AK5 adapter available on ebay ( mine are my own, made with pure silver wire, 'cos I love silver!) and on EF95 setting.
These gave the first MASSIVE improvement - even over the Voskhods, and our later use of the 6DJ8 family (with mods). We found (one of) the best straight replacements was the tall-bottle 6HM5, which beat the Voskhods easily.
Other guys have also found great improvements using 6SN7s as drivers, but require more adaptation still.

The next almost equally huge improvement came from different POWER tubes...YES! - contrary to established belief. Further info below...




Please, please, please DO NOT waste your money on the 6N30P-DR (TD's characters are strictly more correct!). I spent £200 - yes pounds frown.gif  - on a pair, and while they gave a little more than the stock 6H30P, no way were they worth that sort of money. For MUCH less, you can achieve good results from (once again) the 6SN7 family. These too are plug 'n play, using a 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter from ebay. For these, and the other drivers, you will need to remove all the brass bits to accommodate the adapters. And again, on EF95 setting.

In the above photos, first I had a Psvane CV181-TII (basically a 6SN7) in the left channel and a 7N7 (which needs a different adapter to the 6SN7) in the right. Yet again, going against previous findings, the mix gave amazing results - each filled the missing parts of the other, without any clash or imbalance.


But finally came a leap to equal that of the C3gS drivers... 6AS7G's AS POWERS!...unfortunately, this is not so easy to achieve - they require a 2.5A heater power supply, as opposed to the LD's native .9A. So, therefore, if you have never held a screwdriver, pliers, or soldering iron - or can't get a savvy friend to do the job for you - I'm afraid you probably will not be able to experience the humble MKIV/SE to a level that is totally beyond belief...and I'm not foolishly/ignorantly overstating the facts. I never dreamt my Senn HD 650s could sound as they are now doing.

If you are interested, and would like to know more, just have a look on the rolling thread mentioned previously. I can only hope this change would/could be possible for at least some of you. Or at the very least, give the easier-to-adapt 6SN7 (or 7N7) a try - I don't think you would be disappointed. Thankfully they are ALL good, and not too expensive... and if you  are fairly flush, they will definitely sing MUCH better driven by the C3g (preferably the 'S' version, if possible).

ps. The 6AS7G/6080 tube draws a lot of current, and an earlier concern was the strain on the cathode resistors. With help from TrollDragon, pointing out the ones to look for (after artsi's warning), I monitored the outside temp of same and although much higher than stock 29C, after 1 hour they slowly reached 56/57C and then just 59C after 4 hours' continuous play - which I believe is way below max operating value - so it looks like all should be OK. And I have put a good few more hours on my baby...she gets somewhat warmer than before but hey, those tubes get HOT! And no nasty surprises as of yet. The only ones being more mind-blowing ones with each different test track I have been using for a long time now. I cannot overstate the level to which these power tubes have taken my LD.




Hi Chris J.

As mentioned above, until the 6AS7G especially, that was the case...but no longer. The versatility of these LDs - especially the MKIV SE - is quite amazing. This has been demonstrated time and again by the guys on the rolling thread.

And all I can say is that if I had taken TD's advice to "stay away" from said thread, I would have missed this opportunity to achieve a level of sound reproduction I NEVER thought possible, without spending thousands of pounds, lol!


Well folks, I hope I haven't put you all in 'overload' mode, but at least given you "food for thought"...

Cheers, and happy rolling?!

Well.......honestly, I am in "overload mode".
Give me a few millennia to digest this.....confused_face_2.gif

Edit:
You don't have to worry about the envelope temperature of the 6AS7, but you may want to check the case temperature of your Little Dot.
Edited by Chris J - 5/19/14 at 5:03am
post #463 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Useful for members of the Science Forum!

 

I believe I'm a semi-regular member there, and enjoy it.  Feel free to put me on your block list Chris :p

post #464 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

I believe I'm a semi-regular member there, and enjoy it.  Feel free to put me on your block list Chris tongue.gif

OK,
Point taken.
Reserved for the obnoxious members, only! Your too civil and polite.


Back on topic :
OMG, using the 6AS7 is very major surgery!
Maybe Little Dot should create a Super Ultra Limited Edition version that can take an 6AS7 without modification!
post #465 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

@bbmiller 

 

Nothing sinister.  Only you can block a member.  Click the link to show the post, then if you hover your mouse over hypnos1 name in the post, you should get a menu.

 

Here's how mine looks:

 

 

Here's how yours probably looks (I just temporarily blocked hypnos1)

 

 

 

Simply click "unblock member" and everything will be right with the world again ;) 

 

You'll need to refresh the page to see the post after you've unbl;ocked.  My guess  is that you clicked to block him by accident.

 

Thanks Brooko...thought I'd upset someone BIG time! I do try not to be too controversial, lol :ph34r:. Can now rest easy...cheers...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


Well.......honestly, I am in "overload mode".
Give me a few millennia to digest this.....confused_face_2.gif

Edit:
You don't have to worry about the envelope temperature of the 6AS7, but you may want to check the case temperature of your Little Dot.

 

Sorry CJ...I knew I should have fed in two episodes but I just got carried away - that's the effect these 6AS7Gs are having on me (combined with the C3gSs, that is..):L3000:.

 

Sure the case gets warmer than before, but nothing at all to cause concern...thankfully!

 

Although it sounds like very major surgery, in actual fact it isn't that difficult a job for someone with just basic screwdriver & soldering skills...they don't come much more basic than me!

 

So here goes more 'overload' - sorry!...As far as the adapter is concerned, it needs pins 4 and 5 of the 6CG7 cut, leaving just enough to solder on the wires from an external DC power supply.

Naturally this has to be done with a minimal amount protruding, and covered with insulating tape. I found the adapter pins long enough to seat in the socket OK...

 

The power supply needs (of course) to be 6.3V and 2.5A per tube. At present I am using an old laptop power supply/charger, routed through a cheap AC/DC voltage converter/regulator (input ac/dc 12-45V to output ac/dc 0.7-21V 8A, $8.99 incl shipping from amazon). But now I know all is well I have invested in a DC bench power supply, just to be on the safe side - these tubes are MORE than worth it!

 

And there we have it...I did warn you, mon ami!

 

Cheers.

 

ps. Did anyone notice my headphone cable going straight into the machine?...Aah, now that's another story ;).

 

Edit ...pps. The 6AS7G uses the same adapter as the 6SN7 - ie 6SN7 to 6CG7


Edited by hypnos1 - 5/19/14 at 11:41am
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