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DAC, Headphone Amp, Both, or new CD Player (With more refined DAC)? What should I do?

post #1 of 21
9/16/10 at 9:22pm
Thread Starter 

 Hi Guys-- Please Help!

 

I have a decent stereo/audio two channel system that I have enjoyed for the last few years: Marantz CD6000ose, Rotel RA9858X (2-100watts), Epos M-22 floor. I listen mostly to: Jazz, Afro/Latin Jazz, and Classical!

 

Then I bought a pair of Shure SRH-840 Headphones -- I Love them.. Opened up the soundstage, great midrange, and instrument separation,  and I hear things I never heard before. The clarity,separation, and mid stage is wonderful. That started everything off. I got re-acquainted with my CD collection

 

I am wondering what to do next to improve sonic quality: Add a decent DAC (DAC Magic, Benchmark or other recomendations), or a nice headphone amp?, or just buy a new CD player, that would have a more refined DAC in it (Marantz SA-8003) or I am open to any other recomendations forum members may offer.

 

Eventually, I will probably use PC as a source--I am just a little slow catching up, as I go back to the days of vinyl!

 

My budget is approximately $1000 US.

 

Thanks everyone for any input!

 

Joseph


Edited by Clicker7 - 9/16/10 at 9:32pm
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post #2 of 21
9/17/10 at 12:01pm
Thread Starter 

Bump...

 

Can anyone please offer some opinions on the best way to upgrade for this system-- DAC vs.. Headphone Amp, or just get a new CD Player?

 

Thanks again,

 

Joseph


Edited by Clicker7 - 9/17/10 at 12:03pm
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post #3 of 21
9/17/10 at 12:08pm

A better CD player is better indeed, lol.

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post #4 of 21
9/18/10 at 12:12pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks Max.

 

Can anyone else give me some help. What would give this system the most bang for the buck?

 

I spoke to some local audio gurus who both suggested adding a  DAC, and using the Marantz CD6000OSE as transport.

 

One suggested the new Rega DAC coming out in October, another mentioned PS Audio Digital LInk III at $799.

 

Both felt that the DAC would improve the CD Player's DAC output, and would come in handy for processing future computer/server files.

 

Please any input would be appreciated!

 

Thanks again,

Joseph

 

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post #5 of 21
9/19/10 at 4:49am

I dont think there is anything wrong with the marrantz CD600# series and i have always found them to be quit good CD players, with competent DACs

 

 

 

if i were you, i would consider new headphones and amp. Something open, like the Beyer DT880s or Sennheiser HD650 (research these sound signatures before buying) and then a decent headphone amp.

 

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post #6 of 21
9/19/10 at 2:55pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks BCM:

 

I agree, there is nothing wrong with the Marantz cd6000 ose, it's quite nice, warm, and musical in my system. I have enjoyed it for the last few years. But it doesn't preform like a Naim, or Rega, or a Linn which are all more open and musical.

 

I have some extra  $$$, and would like to upgrade the system is some way to enjoy with my Epos speakers (vs. headphone only).

 

Usually one would say then upgrade the source first (cdplyr) but in this case DACs may increase the the performance of the CD player and serve a better function in the future to handle computer files? I'm not sure I can getter better performance this way for $1000, that's why I was asking for some help from forum members well versed with DACs and upgrade issues.

 

Anyone else out there have any suggestions or two...

 

Thanks all!

Joseph

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post #7 of 21
9/19/10 at 4:12pm

First things first, Welcome to Head-fi.org.

 

 

Clicker7 wrote:

 

Can anyone please offer some opinions on the best way to upgrade for this system-- DAC vs.. Headphone Amp, or just get a new CD Player?

 

I'm currently going through what you're going through.  My upgrade path was:

 

ASUS Xonar STX > Sennheiser HD650 > Up grade computer power supply > upgrade headphone cable > Upgrade headphone Amp.

 

Currently, I'm checking out either upgrading the Blu-ray/CD transport or buying a DAC to hook the computer HDD up to via USB/Toslink.  My opinion, there's a stiff learning curve to go along with figuring out which DAC to buy.  In the case of the headphone Amp, I went with the Burson HA-160 because of both glowing reviews and it used discrete parts as opposed to IC's.

 

A word to the wise, if you do too good of a job upgrading your system, you'll reveal the flaws in many of your CD's and render them unlistenable.  In simple terms, think of it as meeting someone when drunk or sober.  Consider listening to your CD's on less expensive gear as meeting someone when you're drunk.  Sober?  You're much more discriminating.  Better gear can kill your listening pleasure as now you're sobered up and daaaaaaamn.

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post #8 of 21
9/19/10 at 6:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeman458 View Post

First things first, Welcome to Head-fi.org.

 

 

Clicker7 wrote:

 

Can anyone please offer some opinions on the best way to upgrade for this system-- DAC vs.. Headphone Amp, or just get a new CD Player?

 

I'm currently going through what you're going through.  My upgrade path was:

 

ASUS Xonar STX > Sennheiser HD650 > Up grade computer power supply > upgrade headphone cable > Upgrade headphone Amp.

 

.... A word to the wise, if you do too good of a job upgrading your system, you'll reveal the flaws in many of your CD's and render them unlistenable.  In simple terms, think of it as meeting someone when drunk or sober.  Consider listening to your CD's on less expensive gear as meeting someone when you're drunk.  Sober?  You're much more discriminating.  Better gear can kill your listening pleasure as now you're sobered up and daaaaaaamn.


Thank you Beeman:

 

I have been reading a lot the last few days regarding upgrading, and I am beginning to lean towards what you wrote  "...better gear can kill your listening pleasure.......". 

 

I have read lots of threads here and on other forums/sites regarding the dangers of upgrades. One gentleman on another site, upgrade with a 1600 DAC (can't remember the name) and the new system sound was cleaner, very clear, more opened and defined; But he found the new sound "fatiguing" ,and tiring, and he didn't enjoy listening this new clinical soundstage. He sent the DAC back and went back to the drawing board and his original set up.

 

I've also read that others have said they couldn't or didn't hear much of a difference after upgrading components, and or DACs,  not enough to justify the course-- I found the thread "DACs when is good enough, good enough........", and interesting read.

 

Yesterday I went to a local Audio store here in Seattle, and auditoned entry level DAC--  PS Audio DLIII. We put it in a system with a Rotel Int., Rotel cd-1520, and A-B them for a while, and with my ears I didn't hear much if any improvement with PS Audio, over the Rotel alone.  However, we did listen to Linn Magic DS-1, and that was lovely, open, textured, and very musical, through Naim speakers, and fed from a server ( about 4500). That system in price was about 3x the Rotel.

 

I'm beginning to lean towards perhaps just upgrading my Marantz 6000ose, which I have enjoyed the last few years. I'm considering the Marantz sa8004 (999), Rega Apollo (999), Naim CD5i (1600), and the Cambrige Azur 840c (1600). I 've read very good reviews on all of these, and think any of them may give me a little bigger soundstage, and perhaps a bit more musicality.

 

It's hard to tell if the expense is worth it without hearing it at home.

 

Please, I am open to any input regarding the above components, or DAC upgrades etc.

 

Thanks very much everyone,

 

Joseph
 


Edited by Clicker7 - 9/19/10 at 6:46pm
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post #9 of 21
9/19/10 at 8:29pm

Clicker7 wrote:

 

Please, I am open to any input regarding the above components, or DAC upgrades etc.

 

As I contemplate the possibilities, one possibility that I'm looking into is an upgraded Blu-ray player so you get the best of all the worlds; Blu-ray, DVD, SACD and CD with upgraded parts in the likes of a NuForce OPPO BDP-83SE.

 

The thread you mentioned ("DACs when is good enough, good enough........") was a thread I started to help me better understand the possibilities.  Here's another currently running thread to help confuse you with the possibilities.

 

Do you have a budget in mind?

 

???

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post #10 of 21
9/19/10 at 9:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeman458 View Post

Clicker7 wrote:

 

Please, I am open to any input regarding the above components, or DAC upgrades etc.

 

As I contemplate the possibilities, one possibility that I'm looking into is an upgraded Blu-ray player so you get the best of all the worlds; Blu-ray, DVD, SACD and CD with upgraded parts in the likes of a NuForce OPPO BDP-83SE.

 

The thread you mentioned ("DACs when is good enough, good enough........") was a thread I started to help me better understand the possibilities.  Here's another currently running thread to help confuse you with the possibilities.

 

Do you have a budget in mind?

 

???



Beeman: that's an excellent thread! I picked up some good info there!

 

My budget is 1000+1500, I should be able to do something modest with that to make some improvement.!

 

Joseph

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post #11 of 21
9/19/10 at 10:17pm

Beeman: that's an excellent thread! I picked up some good info there!

 

Thanks!  And great.

 

As to Audio-gd DAC's, I'm looking at the units in the $800.00 - $1,000.00 range.  There are several quality choices at this level but I can't decide which way to go.  I'm feeling partial to the NFB-1 with possible upgrades because of it's processor being future proof with balanced output and it's 32-bit/192KHz capabilities which leaves me looking at the ROC, a balanced Amp.  Now I'm having to up the budget ante to complete the deal and then sell the Amp I just got, back out.

 

 

In the case of WYRED 4 Sound, their DAC-2 has a remote control and one can use it as a combined DAC/Amp but it's $1,500.00, the max of my budget and I already have a killer Amp, but it only has RCA connects and balanced connects are the way to go when it comes to upgrading sound quality.

 

I haven't a clue how much good will be derived by going with something like the Marantz SA8004 for $1,000.00.

 

Let's see, Audio-gd, WYRED 4 Sound, Marantz or NuForce?

 

???

 

Now comes the rub, what kind of sound can you expect, once you do put your money down?

 

???

 

My budget is 1000+1500, I should be able to do something modest with that to make some improvement.!

 

Personally, being that that is my budget, for a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars, I expect there to be a lot of change.

 

???

 

 

Thomas


Edited by beeman458 - 9/19/10 at 10:32pm
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post #12 of 21
9/19/10 at 10:55pm

I've been surfing around and what I'm finding in the case of the Blu-ray player, it uses a DAC that's a step down.  In the case of the Marantz SA8004, you still need a separate DAC as the unit only has digital out.

 

 

Oooooh kr@p.

 

FWIW, personally, price-wise and from the all too many reviews I've read, I'm beginning to settle on the Amp that I currently have (it's very good) and an Audio-gd NFB-1 with any upgrades I can have added at the time it's made.  The point, from my vantage point, and your plight, I'm going be doing an Amp/DAC upgrade before I look to changes in the transport system.  I'm currently using a Pioneer Blu-ray burner in my computer.  I've downloaded EAC (Exact Audio Copy) and will learn how to use this program to make sure I'm getting faithful rips and go from there.

 

Hope my above has been found insightful as we both stumble blindly along on this sojourn.

 

Thomas

 

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post #13 of 21
9/19/10 at 10:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clicker7 View Post

 

I'm beginning to lean towards perhaps just upgrading my Marantz 6000ose, which I have enjoyed the last few years. I'm considering the Marantz sa8004 (999), Rega Apollo (999), Naim CD5i (1600), and the Cambrige Azur 840c (1600). I 've read very good reviews on all of these, and think any of them may give me a little bigger soundstage, and perhaps a bit more musicality.

 

It's hard to tell if the expense is worth it without hearing it at home.

 

Please, I am open to any input regarding the above components, or DAC upgrades etc.

 

Thanks very much everyone,

 

Joseph
 

 

I'm looking at the Marantz SA8004 as well. It would give me a SACD player and solve my no DAC issue. Unfortunately I can't find any reviews or anything about it I guess since it just came out in August.

 

Does anyone here own it and wouldn't mind sharing their thoughts?

 

Also, if I get it, the best connection from my computer (which has the optical 1/8 headphone jack out) would be s/pdif (coaxial) I've gathered (I don't want to use USB if I don't have to anyway). Is that correct (or will that work)?

 

American Theater has it for $748 + shipping (found via Audiogon) which seems like a great deal.

I apologize for any threadjacking but rather than starting a similiar new thread I posted here.

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post #14 of 21
9/19/10 at 11:14pm

Just a word to the wise in that the SA8004 uses a step-down chip and doesn't have any RCA outs.  In my case, wasn't very encouraging.  In fact is sealed the deal as to what direction I was going go.


Edited by beeman458 - 9/19/10 at 11:15pm
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post #15 of 21
9/19/10 at 11:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeman458 View Post

Just a word to the wise in that the SA8004 uses a step-down chip and doesn't have any RCA outs.  In my case, wasn't very encouraging.  In fact is sealed the deal as to what direction I was going go.

 

I assumed that those were RCA outs on the left side there. No?

SA8004__U1B__Rear_96dpiW1200.jpg
 

Also could you please expand a little on the step-down chip? I was under the assumption that the D/A converter in this was good. Thanks.
 

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