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Audio-GD NFB-2 & NFB-3 Delivery & Impression Thread - Page 97

post #1441 of 1572


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostChild1 View Post


From what I understand here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversampling
Oversampling basically just gives the filters and clock more "wiggle room" for imperfections, in the anti-aliasing and resolution, allowing for a higher S/N ratio.
This is different from Upsampling in that the signal isn't actually being changed? That's kind of where I get confused between the two.
I've always been told that the more that what is on the PC (FLAC) stays untouched by the time it gets to your headphones (No replay gain, no transcoding (Well from flac it doesn't matter but you know what I mean), no otherwise changing or colouring of the signal, the better.
Wouldn't using the DI to go from 44.1khz to 96khz be changing the signal and trying to put something where there was nothing? (Like trying to transcode from MP3 to FLAC... mad.gif )


Oversampling 2x , 4x , 8x etc , use integers , 44*2 = 88 etc , not a complicated operation (but i don't know about complexity in others stages of iltring in a dac) 

 

upsampling  44 to 88 no prob it's the same 2x  ; 44 to 96 no integers => much more complex to process 

 

(i was wrong about it some time ago soo tongue.gif) just wait for some one you really knows rolleyes.gif


Edited by HaVoC-28 - 2/6/12 at 7:57am
post #1442 of 1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostChild1 View Post


From what I understand here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversampling
Oversampling basically just gives the filters and clock more "wiggle room" for imperfections, in the anti-aliasing and resolution, allowing for a higher S/N ratio.
This is different from Upsampling in that the signal isn't actually being changed? That's kind of where I get confused between the two.
I've always been told that the more that what is on the PC (FLAC) stays untouched by the time it gets to your headphones (No replay gain, no transcoding (Well from flac it doesn't matter but you know what I mean), no otherwise changing or colouring of the signal, the better.
Wouldn't using the DI to go from 44.1khz to 96khz be changing the signal and trying to put something where there was nothing? (Like trying to transcode from MP3 to FLAC... mad.gif )


You are not wrong there (from what I understood during my single DSP course back in school). However, what is added during upsampling, I do not know. I have no idea how it objectively affects the sound, but subjectively, I like what I hear.

 

EDIT: you can request Audio-Gd to send you the upgrade clock (if you wish) and try out the DI with it's various settings for yourself if you're already decided on the DI I guess


Edited by aspenx - 2/6/12 at 6:41pm
post #1443 of 1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by aspenx View Post



You are not wrong there (from what I understood during my single DSP course back in school). However, what is added during upsampling, I do not know. I have no idea how it objectively affects the sound, but subjectively, I like what I hear.

EDIT: you can request Audio-Gd to send you the upgrade clock (if you wish) and try out the DI with it's various settings for yourself if you're already decided on the DI I guess

I'm not necessarily decided. As I said, I was looking into these things about a year ago, but didn't have that kind of money to drop on my hobby at the time. Things have now changed, and I think I can afford to buy myself something nice for around $600-800. I've only been back on Head-Fi for 2 days now, so if you have any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them! smily_headphones1.gif

Thanks!
post #1444 of 1572

Can you switch out the ACSS outputs for RCA plugs instead? I need an output to my Millett Max and another for my Adam A3X speakers?

 

ALso I'll most likley order from a UK supplier so cannot just ask for them to be switched at the factory.


Edited by adfinni - 2/9/12 at 6:20pm
post #1445 of 1572

Can someone tell me briefly what the differences are between the DIR9001 and wm8805? I've just recently ordered one (with the stock wm8805) and I'm currently banging my head about whether or not to buy the DIR9001(and have both) or just switch the wm8805 out with the DIR9001.

 

I currently have a pair of dt990s atm which I do find them a tad bright (nothing unbearable) and although the mids are detailed and nice, they're a bit recessed/laid-back.

post #1446 of 1572

On the 3.1 could you say "flavor 1" makes the sound warmest and "flavor 9" makes the sound clearest?

post #1447 of 1572

Quote:

Originally Posted by phandrew View Post

On the 3.1 could you say "flavor 1" makes the sound warmest and "flavor 9" makes the sound clearest?



The flavors are simply different implementations of filters that the Wolfson DAC chip provides.  Ideally, flavor 7 is the most true representation of the original analog signal, but compromises between the various benefits of either soft-knee or brickwall filters.  You really won't be able to tell them apart much, but the different filters are all trying to minimize pre-ringing while maintaining phase.

Just googled this because I'm horrible at explaining things and this came up:
http://hifiduino.blogspot.com/2009/05/wm8741-digital-filters.html

post #1448 of 1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostChild1 View Post


From what I understand here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversampling
Oversampling basically just gives the filters and clock more "wiggle room" for imperfections, in the anti-aliasing and resolution, allowing for a higher S/N ratio.
This is different from Upsampling in that the signal isn't actually being changed? That's kind of where I get confused between the two.
I've always been told that the more that what is on the PC (FLAC) stays untouched by the time it gets to your headphones (No replay gain, no transcoding (Well from flac it doesn't matter but you know what I mean), no otherwise changing or colouring of the signal, the better.
Wouldn't using the DI to go from 44.1khz to 96khz be changing the signal and trying to put something where there was nothing? (Like trying to transcode from MP3 to FLAC... mad.gif )


It doesn't add what already isn't there.  For example, when transcoding from MP3 to flac, you have essentially not degradation of audio; it is just less efficient.  Same with oversampling when the source material is only 44.1kHz, you don't lose audio because the 96kHz would just be sampling what already exists or uses previous values to fill in blanks (simplified), but it is more demanding on your hardware.  Of course, just about any computer from the last 10 years should have no trouble processing audio @ 96kHz, so you don't have much to lose.  Too much oversampling does yield other problems, but 384kHz DACs at the consumer end are for people with more cents than sense.

Dan Lavry does a good job further explaining oversampling in this white paper: http://www.lavryengineering.com/white_papers/sample.pdf

More white papers here: http://www.lavryengineering.com/supportpage.html

post #1449 of 1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by jageur272 View Post

Quote:



Ideally, flavor 7 is the most true representation of the original analog signal, but compromises between the various benefits of either soft-knee or brickwall filters.


THANK YOU. I asked this in various ways, and never got a clear answer. I was looking for the most 'neutral' filter, but no one seemed to have the answer. Not sure if you're 100% correct, but since I honestly didn't hear much difference with all like filters, I'll just take your word for it and stick with Filter 7.

I'm using an NFB 5 though, lol.
post #1450 of 1572

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


THANK YOU. I asked this in various ways, and never got a clear answer. I was looking for the most 'neutral' filter, but no one seemed to have the answer. Not sure if you're 100% correct, but since I honestly didn't hear much difference with all like filters, I'll just take your word for it and stick with Filter 7.
I'm using an NFB 5 though, lol.


The filtering techniques used are dependent on the chip's implementation and since the NFB5, NFB2, and NFB3 all share the same DAC chip (the WM8741), the output after filtering should be similar.

post #1451 of 1572

Hi everyone

 

 

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I bought a Zero Dac many moons ago on recommendations from this forum. It was great for what it was but is sadly now defunct. After much umming and ahing (years of it, in fact - I have been relying on the Squeezebox classic's internal conversion) I finally read here about what seemed an affordable Dac that would truly be an upgrade. I am now listening to my new NFB-3.1 and grinning. The point of the post, however, is to sing Kingwa's praises. This is how I sang them to him:

 

"Sorry that I am using your personal email address - it's not that I have a complaint, just that I wanted you get my message personally. After all the problem with getting 120v nfb-3.1 instead of the 240v I am now listening to the DAC. Wow! It is everything I expected and more. After reading your very honest and clear description on your site of the sound I knew it would be what my system needed. The sound is neutral, lush and articulate. Thank you for your good work in design, honest marketing and amazing service. I am very very happy."

 

Not much to add except to say that one of Kingwa's "mates" as he calls them, sent me a 120v version in error. I didn't check and on power-up the thing buzzed like an enraged bull bee ( if you got such a thing) and began to emit a foul smell of burnt insulation. An email with pic of the sticker that I didn't read later and a new one was on its way to me, no questions asked. Amazing service.

 

 

 

 

 

post #1452 of 1572

That's awesome to hear!

 

I'm still waiting until next Tuesday for him to send out my unit (nfb 3.1) and it's a great thing to hear some positive sentiments on the device - honestly, the eternal wait is slowly tearing me up inside-out!

 

Anyway, it's nice to hear that you're enjoying the dac immenselyL3000.gif.

post #1453 of 1572

I don't know where else to post this so I'm doing it here.

 

I finally took the plunge (wallet is lighter than feather these days) and got myself the C2.2 amp to go with my NFB2 through the DI.

 

This is yet another quality product and goes very well with the NFB2. Listening to wonderful stuff right now. darthsmile.gif

post #1454 of 1572


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspenx View Post

I don't know where else to post this so I'm doing it here.

 

I finally took the plunge (wallet is lighter than feather these days) and got myself the C2.2 amp to go with my NFB2 through the DI.

 

This is yet another quality product and goes very well with the NFB2. Listening to wonderful stuff right now. darthsmile.gif



NFB-2 + C2 family is a great combo for sure , (using mostly ACSS here ^^) .

post #1455 of 1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaVoC-28 View Post

NFB-2 + C2 family is a great combo for sure , (using mostly ACSS here ^^) .


Yea. I've been reading about that on the forums, but always wondered, "in what way???" and never managed to find a detailed review.

 

I'm using ACSS too and yea... It's great. hahaha. I guess there really isn't much to say. beerchug.gif

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