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post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daanish View Post

I sometimes get the feeling that Cowon purposely built the flat setting of the J3 to be fairly ordinary so that you would use the extensive eq options, which I do. Once I have it set how I want it, it is hands down the best thing I've ever heard. 


The argument against heavy EQ is simple - its great if you only listen to one style of music, or you are simply an all-out basshead (I dont know any all-out trebleheads, but there are plenty of bassheads on Head-Fi). That said, I find the Head-Fi obsession with 'neutrality' to be a bit disingenous : most of us want a little warmth in our music. I doubt that there is a single person working for a mainstream record label who doesnt recognise this, and most pop/rock today refects that. I say 'give the people what they want', and I think Apple have nailed it with the default sound signature on the 6G Nano - purists would disagree, but thats fine with me.

 

post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daanish View Post

I sometimes get the feeling that Cowon purposely built the flat setting of the J3 to be fairly ordinary so that you would use the extensive eq options, which I do. Once I have it set how I want it, it is hands down the best thing I've ever heard. 


Possibly yes - I never thought of it that way.  I also agree with it being the best thing ever once you got the EQ down but that can only be said if you have the right pair of decent headphones.  What's unavoidable is the cold and absolutely lifeless sound by default.  

None of the EQ options correct that no matter what you do.  Partially that's the reason why on the Cowon J3, it's pretty much a necessity to EQ to the + side.  


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post




The argument against heavy EQ is simple - its great if you only listen to one style of music, or you are simply an all-out basshead (I dont know any all-out trebleheads, but there are plenty of bassheads on Head-Fi). That said, I find the Head-Fi obsession with 'neutrality' to be a bit disingenous : most of us want a little warmth in our music. I doubt that there is a single person working for a mainstream record label who doesnt recognise this, and most pop/rock today refects that. I say 'give the people what they want', and I think Apple have nailed it with the default sound signature on the 6G Nano - purists would disagree, but thats fine with me.

 



I'm a bit confused on your position.  You seem to be on both sides.  A few points to make though - the fact that you say one EQ standard is only good done for one style of music isn't true.  You're thinking of headphones with a flat EQ response (and you're forgetting preference) where EQ acts only as genre enhancers as many presets indicate.  I can only speak for the Cowon J3 but it's purpose is to EQ for headphones to get the right sound.  You must of course test with different songs of different artists and different genres, but that's really just because of different mixing and recording techniques used for all different songs/music.  The EQ really is generalized to fit all, with the occasional exceptions which always are regardless of EQ.  I mean, that's basically like saying that you can't calibrate a TV to one setting because everything looks different.  Well.. it's supposed to.  You do your best to find the balance.  It will still be better regardless than the default if you know what you're doing.

 

The only point of neutrality is for mixing/recording so that the sound isn't more in one direction than another.  Otherwise, it would be unbalanced on devices that emphasize/deemphasize that same area the non-neutral device/phones might've accented.  If people have a general craze for flat sound for casual listening (many times forced), they're not using their ears but simple boxed mentality like, "That's the 'correct' way of listening".  Stupid really...  I love it when a "tech guy" bashes on "audiophiles" and even uses the term as a derogatory.  You must be both to be a good techie/Engineer of this profession in the first place.  Either side to the extreme is total BS.  That's why the Doom9 forums are simply unbearable.


Edited by Typhoon859 - 4/11/11 at 6:39pm
post #48 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post


The argument against heavy EQ is simple - its great if you only listen to one style of music, or you are simply an all-out basshead (I dont know any all-out trebleheads, but there are plenty of bassheads on Head-Fi). That said, I find the Head-Fi obsession with 'neutrality' to be a bit disingenous : most of us want a little warmth in our music. I doubt that there is a single person working for a mainstream record label who doesnt recognise this, and most pop/rock today refects that. I say 'give the people what they want', and I think Apple have nailed it with the default sound signature on the 6G Nano - purists would disagree, but thats fine with me.

 



Unless you have the J3 which gives you four custom slots smile.gif One is my metal/rock eq (50% of my music), my acoustic/folk/vocal eq, my blues/jazz eq and one for classical. I will admit though it is IEM dependent, though I find that now that the Pana's and my JVC's do well with similar eq's, possible due to having similar signatures. 

post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post




Possibly yes - I never thought of it that way.  I also agree with it being the best thing ever once you got the EQ down but that can only be said if you have the right pair of decent headphones.  What's unavoidable is the cold and absolutely lifeless sound by default.  

None of the EQ options correct that no matter what you do.  Partially that's the reason why on the Cowon J3, it's pretty much a necessity to EQ to the + side.  


 



I'm a bit confused on your position.  You seem to be on both sides.  A few points to make though - the fact that you say one EQ standard is only good done for one style of music isn't true.  You're thinking of headphones with a flat EQ response (and you're forgetting preference) where EQ acts only as genre enhancers as many presets indicate.  I can only speak for the Cowon J3 but it's purpose is to EQ for headphones to get the right sound.  You must of course test with different songs of different artists and different genres, but that's really just because of different mixing and recording techniques used for all different songs/music.  The EQ really is generalized to fit all, with the occasional exceptions which always are regardless of EQ.  I mean, that's basically like saying that you can't calibrate a TV to one setting because everything looks different.  Well.. it's supposed to.  You do your best to find the balance.  It will still be better regardless than the default if you know what you're doing.

 

The only point of neutrality is for mixing/recording so that the sound isn't more in one direction than another.  Otherwise, it would be unbalanced on devices that emphasize/deemphasize that same area the non-neutral device/phones might've accented.  If people have a general craze for flat sound for casual listening (many times forced), they're not using their ears but simple boxed mentality like, "That's the 'correct' way of listening".  Stupid really...  I love it when a "tech guy" bashes on "audiophiles" and even uses the term as a derogatory.  You must be both to be a good techie/Engineer of this profession in the first place.  Either side to the extreme is total BS.  That's why the Doom9 forums are simply unbearable.


I'm not bashing anyone - just restating the problem with *heavy* EQ, whether it be hardware or software. End of the day, its whatever floats your boat, but I like the default sound signature of the Nano - I just dont try to pretend that is ruler-flat neutral, because Apple wouldnt try to sell a player like that.

 

post #50 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post




I'm not bashing anyone - just restating the problem with *heavy* EQ, whether it be hardware or software. End of the day, its whatever floats your boat, but I like the default sound signature of the Nano - I just dont try to pretend that is ruler-flat neutral, because Apple wouldnt try to sell a player like that.

 


 

Yeah, don't worry.  I know.  The response was just an overall response to the topic, not just to what you mentioned, lol.  

post #51 of 67

For those who insist sansa was the best player......they probably never own Hifiman, Kenwood HD series, QA350, Sony pcm-d50, Rio Karma......

 

As for the "EQ", I found rockbox's EQ is pretty much garbage.....(But of course, it's little better than ipod's distorted EQ)

post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by faichiu View Post

For those who insist sansa was the best player......they probably never own Hifiman, Kenwood HD series, QA350, Sony pcm-d50, Rio Karma......

 

As for the "EQ", I found rockbox's EQ is pretty much garbage.....(But of course, it's little better than ipod's distorted EQ)


What the heck are you smoking?? You must not have learned to use it to its fullest abilities....you can set every frequency band, the width of each of those bands, the width of the stereo field....etc.

 

post #53 of 67


Well, you got all the feature but this does not mean the rockbox's EQ can produce natural sound.  Sorry!  I found it produce artificial sound.

 

If you have a chance, try Rio Karma's EQ and you will notice what I am talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achmedisdead View Post




What the heck are you smoking?? You must not have learned to use it to its fullest abilities....you can set every frequency band, the width of each of those bands, the width of the stereo field....etc.

 



 

post #54 of 67

My Sony MZ1 MD player :-)

post #55 of 67

***Delete Please***


Edited by Typhoon859 - 4/12/11 at 9:50am
post #56 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by faichiu View Post

For those who insist sansa was the best player......they probably never own Hifiman, Kenwood HD series, QA350, Sony pcm-d50, Rio Karma......

 

As for the "EQ", I found rockbox's EQ is pretty much garbage.....(But of course, it's little better than ipod's distorted EQ)


Holy crap, I have never heard of any of those!  But.. the fact that NONE of the popular ones is mentioned in your list also says something...  ALL of those you're saying sound better than the Cowon J3/Samsung P3?


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albinoni View Post

My Sony MZ1 MD player :-)


Joke?

 

post #57 of 67

Why did my computer make three posts?  I'm confused......  And I can't delete them >.<

***Delete***


Edited by Typhoon859 - 4/12/11 at 9:51am
post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by faichiu View Post

For those who insist sansa was the best player......they probably never own Hifiman, Kenwood HD series, QA350, Sony pcm-d50, Rio Karma......

 

As for the "EQ", I found rockbox's EQ is pretty much garbage.....(But of course, it's little better than ipod's distorted EQ)

 


 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by faichiu View Post

 

Well, you got all the feature but this does not mean the rockbox's EQ can produce natural sound.  Sorry!  I found it produce artificial sound.

 

If you have a chance, try Rio Karma's EQ and you will notice what I am talking about.

 

 

 

Sorry, Rockbox can't sound as horrid or as cutoff as the hifyman - being louder than other DAP's doesn't mean better, but your biased & would never admit the truth ,... If Rockbox sounded so much worse than ALL the other DAP's you've mentioned then why do people who've used them LOVE ROCKBOX?!?!?! 

 

And the Rockbox EQ doesn't distort,...so now I also know your lying,... Sad, so very sad,...

 

And really, Rockbox sounds ARTIFICIAL??? You must have a hearing problem - and this statement PROVES IT. deadhorse.gif

 

You've shown bias and have now opened the proverbial "can of worms"!!!


Edited by tds101 - 4/12/11 at 1:53pm
post #59 of 67

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nywytboy68 View Post



 


 

 

 

Sorry, Rockbox can't sound as horrid or as cutoff as the hifyman - being louder than other DAP's doesn't mean better, but your biased & would never admit the truth ,... If Rockbox sounded so much worse than ALL the other DAP's you've mentioned then why do people who've used them LOVE ROCKBOX?!?!?! 

 

And the Rockbox EQ doesn't distort,...so now I also know your lying,... Sad, so very sad,...

 

And really, Rockbox sounds ARTIFICIAL??? You must have a hearing problem - and this statement PROVES IT. deadhorse.gif

 

You've shown bias and have now opened the proverbial "can of worms"!!!



I really wanna hear Rockbox now.  Sadly it doesn't work for the Cowon J3.  I'd be afraid to put it on there anyway.  Should I just get a cheap Sansa player to try it out?

post #60 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post

 



I really wanna hear Rockbox now.  Sadly it doesn't work for the Cowon J3.  I'd be afraid to put it on there anyway.  Should I just get a cheap Sansa player to try it out?



 


Get a refurbished Sansa clip+, Rockbox it, and enjoy!!! You can ALWAYS get a microSD card to expand the capacity of the player later on. Well worth the initial $20 something $$$ IMO.

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