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"the vinyl has been replaced by the CD, largely inferior in quality" - Page 2

post #16 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

OT, but I'm actually interested in that as well.


Don't hold your breath. I've already asked him twice, once in the original thread and once in another thread before this one.

 

Apparently he either can't or won't elaborate so I'll quit asking.

 

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post #17 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

OK, so it boils down to the fact that a vintage vinyl deck sounds better than a cheap CD player?


Who said anything about a cheap CD player?

 

Virtually everyone I know who prefers vinyl prefers it even compared to CD playback on the finest CD players out there.

 

 

Quote:
99% of the humanity cannot grasp the idea of spending more than $20 on a pair of headphones, so these ppl compare a $30 DVD player to a vintage vinyl deck and decide that they prefer the crackling warm vinyl sound to the shrill/thin sounding CD?

 

Who says they're comparing to a $30 DVD player?

 

Exactly who are the "these people" you're referring to?

 

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post #18 of 437


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9pintube View Post

Maybe it's also an age thing, we grew up with the vinyl LP, we/I love the ritual of holding the LP jacket ( let alone the Info and art work on the covers).

 

And of course the double albums were indispensable for cleaning the seeds out of your uh... Schiit.

 

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post #19 of 437
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

 

Virtually everyone I know who prefers vinyl prefers it even compared to CD playback on the finest CD players out there.

  

Who says they're comparing to a $30 DVD player?

 

Exactly who are the "these people" you're referring to? 


I dunno...."the people" who seem to prefer the crackling noisy sound of a lofi source that carries horrid SNR/THD/crosstalk specs, when they can get a much clearer and just as PRaTty sounding source. I understand it's super fun to get cheap records, hence providing you w/ cheap music...but in the digital era music seems to have lost its monetary notion anyway.

 

My goal is to have listening to my PC reminding me of listening to a high grade reel to reel. I'll take a r2r over vinyl anyday.

 

Nagra-IV-S-Professional-Tape-Recorder.jpg


Edited by leeperry - 9/13/10 at 8:27pm
post #20 of 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

I dunno...."the people" who seem to prefer the crackling noisy sound of a lofi source that carries horrid SNR/THD/crosstalk specs, when they can get a much clearer and just as PRaTty sounding source.

 


But what if they simply don't like that "much cleaner and just as PRaTty sounding source" as much as they do vinyl?

 

Why do you seem to be so intolerant of those who may prefer something other than what you prefer?

 

 

Quote:

My goal is to have listening to my PC reminding me of listening to a high grade reel to reel. I'll take a r2r over vinyl anyday.

 

 

Great! It's all about what gives one the most pleasure and enjoyment.

 

How does the fact that others may prefer vinyl effect you in any way?

 

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post #21 of 437
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

But what if they simply don't like that "much cleaner and just as PRaTty sounding source" as much as they do vinyl?

 

How does the fact that others may prefer vinyl effect you in any way?


They might as well listen to cassettes recorded in Dolby B for what I care, I just wonder why JM Jarre made this statement on national TV at 8PM that "CD is largely inferior to vinyl"...in 2010....when he's selling a pimped ipod dock.

 

It seems to me that many ppl relate to the black record itself as a part of their experience...but why would an electronic music producer use this as his main sales pitch? why do many ppl honestly believe that "vinyl has the more accurate waveform" and that "The cd is lacking bits = resolution": http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/309979/could-crosstalk-be-what-s-responsible-for-vinyl-s-superior-sound

 

We're in the science forum, and vinyl is obsolete on all accounts as far as I can tell.


Edited by leeperry - 9/13/10 at 9:02pm
post #22 of 437

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

Yeah, it's nice if you can find ones that haven't been scratched up and played a bazillion times with a 5 pound tonearm.

 

By the way, still wanting some elaboration on your NFB/strangled signal comment.

 

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I didn't see your comment earlier; I had to go back.  Also, anyone is welcome to send a PM if I miss something.

 

There are different camps on NFB, most of what I've read seeks to minimize or eliminate it.

 

If you'd point me to some reading on the other side, I'll be happy to read it.  I take you seriously and I'll change my mind if I see some good arguments and examples on the other side.  I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again, so show me the right direction and I'll learn.

 

As for the records, I've had good luck finding classical box sets.  Some of them have had one disc played with the others seemingly untouched.  I also don't buy a lot of records and have thrown some away.  I just enjoy going through the bins and finding music I didn't know about.

post #23 of 437
Thread Starter 

ok, I guess it's indeed the distortion ppl like so much in vinyl: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/309979/could-crosstalk-be-what-s-responsible-for-vinyl-s-superior-sound/15#post_4035097

 

"the main diferences in vinyl is a lack of hardness in the treble, soundstage depth, natural warmth, texture throughout the freq. range."

 

they're not interested in a 1:1 copy of the mastertape at all, they want it to crackle and pop w/ low crosstalk and SNR...and I guess JMJ is just playing it old school to sell his (prolly grossly overpriced) ipod dock.


Edited by leeperry - 9/13/10 at 9:14pm
post #24 of 437


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

They might as well listen to cassettes recorded in Dolby B for what I care, I just wonder why JM Jarre made this statement on national TV at 8PM that "CD is largely inferior to vinyl"...in 2010....when he's selling a pimped ipod dock.

 


Perhaps because he knows that vinyl is gaining acceptance by a broader audience than in the recent past.

 

Quote:
We're in the science forum, and vinyl is obsolete on all accounts as far as I can tell.

 

How can you say something that's actually gaining in popularity is obsolete?

 

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post #25 of 437


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

 

There are different camps on NFB, most of what I've read seeks to minimize or eliminate it.

 

If you'd point me to some reading on the other side, I'll be happy to read it.  I take you seriously and I'll change my mind if I see some good arguments and examples on the other side.  I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again, so show me the right direction and I'll learn.

 


I don't have any particular argument one way or the other with regard to NFB. What caught my attention was your argument where you said that because there's a delay involved with negative feedback it "strangles the signal." I was wondering what exactly was the effect on the signal that you were referring to as being "strangled."

 

If you wish to answer, let's continue this in the original thread:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/510113/low-impedence-headphones-more-susceptible-to-tube-induced-distortion-why

 

Quote:
As for the records, I've had good luck finding classical box sets.  Some of them have had one disc played with the others seemingly untouched.  I also don't buy a lot of records and have thrown some away.  I just enjoy going through the bins and finding music I didn't know about.

 

Right. And music you would likely never know about otherwise.

 

There's a whole world of music on vinyl that will never be offered on CD or any other digital format for that matter.

 

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post #26 of 437


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

ok, I guess it's indeed the distortion ppl like so much in vinyl: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/309979/could-crosstalk-be-what-s-responsible-for-vinyl-s-superior-sound/15#post_4035097

 

"the main diferences in vinyl is a lack of hardness in the treble, soundstage depth, natural warmth, texture throughout the freq. range."

 

they're not interested in a 1:1 copy of the mastertape at all, they want it to crackle and pop w/ low crosstalk and SNR...and I guess JMJ is just playing it old school to sell his (prolly grossly overpriced) ipod dock.

 

If you can't discuss this issue without constantly backhandedly denigrating people, then just go away.

 

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post #27 of 437
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

 

If you can't discuss this issue without constantly backhandedly denigrating people, then just go away.

 

Well, it's my thread so be my guest :)

 

And I'm not  passing judgments on anyone, I'm reading the facts...the ppl who prefer vinyl over CD are not interested in a 1:1 copy of the mastertape at all. The same reason that makes some ppl still use tube amps I guess....and JMJ is one of those, it makes perfect sense now.

 

They prefer a distorted sound because it's more musical to their ears, it reminds them of the "good ole days". He didn't meant "quality" in a literal way, which I had expected coming from a music producer.


Edited by leeperry - 9/13/10 at 9:45pm
post #28 of 437
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

How can you say something that's actually gaining in popularity is obsolete?

 

vinyl is gaining popularity? in 2010? got figures to back up that statement?
 

Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

 

There's a whole world of music on vinyl that will never be offered on CD or any other digital format for that matter.


Just like there's many great movies that are not available in HD but only on DVD...luckily you can upscale them and still make them look good. The same way you can spend hours on a vinyl recording and manually declick/decrackle it on a PC.

 

To me the whole point of classical music is to have a high SNR and a very clear instruments separation....vinyl is great for funk, though as it perfectly fits the music style.

post #29 of 437

I think the point is, there's nothing 'magical' about vinyl.  Its a clear degradation of the signal in a very specific way, which is pleasing to some people, or because the vinyl gets a different and better master.  That has to be true.  Otherwise this would be impossible.  Either the playback from the vinyl is adding something that the ADC can capture, or you are simply digitizing a copy of a better master.  Either way vinyl is unnecessary.  The vinyl 'sound' can either be added to the master and pressed to a cd, of the better master can be used to make the cd in the first place.

post #30 of 437


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

 

vinyl is gaining popularity? in 2010? got figures to back up that statement?

 

 

 

Sure do.

 

Of course the 2010 numbers aren't in yet because well, it's still 2010.

 

Read 'em and weep:

 

lpsales.jpg

 

And since this trend has been going on for at least the past four or rive years, I've no reason to suspect that it won't continue in 2010.

 

And here are the top selling vinyl artists from 2009:

 

lpartists.jpg

 

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