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Help with understanding Cmoy assembly

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

I have decided I shall build a Cmoy as a starter project for DIY audio. I have a family friend who own a soldering iron which makes it all the more convenient. But anyway...

I am having trouble understanding the circuit. I know very little about circuits in general since I am only 14 and haven't been exposed to that kind of stuff.

 

1. Could someone explain to me in depth how the signal is passed on?

2. What function do the jumpers serve in the design?

3. Instead of answering my stupid questions could someone show me where I could find a guide THAT IS MORE DESCRIPTIVE THAN TANGENTSOFT'S?

 

Tangentsoft's guide is nice but lacks pictures that would help me understand what to solder together and how the current is passed through. Pictures or an in depth explanation would be equally appreciated.

 

-Alex

post #2 of 17
Thread Starter 

Nevermind. I just made a fool of myself. I understand most of it now. I wasn't thinking that the PCB was conductive (the copper part). *sigh*

post #3 of 17

Compare the schematic to the layout and to get an idea of what is going on (how things are connected) - with 2 ways of representing it (schematic vs physical layout), it's usually easier to see things more clearly.

post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post

Compare the schematic to the layout and to get an idea of what is going on (how things are connected) - with 2 ways of representing it (schematic vs physical layout), it's usually easier to see things more clearly.


I know, that's what helped me. I don't understand what purpose the ground jumper serves though.

post #5 of 17

Working with the image linked below:

 

http://tangentsoft.net/audio/cmoy-tutorial/bitmaps/mini-cmoy--150-ann-board-1.jpg

 

Which one is the ground jumper?

The one in the middle that connects the two strips that run down the center of the board?

post #6 of 17

the best way to understand or learn what is going on is to disregard the physical circuit and try to learn from only the schematic.

 

which jumper is the ground jumper you mention? i'm assuming based on what you call it it's connecting something to ground. if you are finding certain parts of the circuit confusing or dont understand why something is the way it is i can try explaining it more.

post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterX View Post

Working with the image linked below:

 

http://tangentsoft.net/audio/cmoy-tutorial/bitmaps/mini-cmoy--150-ann-board-1.jpg

 

Which one is the ground jumper?

The one in the middle that connects the two strips that run down the center of the board?


Oh, so it connects the negative and positive currents right? I am starting to understand.

post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soymilk View Post

the best way to understand or learn what is going on is to disregard the physical circuit and try to learn from only the schematic.

 

which jumper is the ground jumper you mention? i'm assuming based on what you call it it's connecting something to ground. if you are finding certain parts of the circuit confusing or dont understand why something is the way it is i can try explaining it more.


So the best way is not to ask questions or to understand but just just to do as you are told? Sounds a lot like politics...XD

post #9 of 17

i meant that more as a don't rely on the physical pictures to understand what the circuit's doing if you want to learn the design, but by all means ask questions. as mister x said, if you're looking at someone else's picture of a circuit and dont know what a particular piece's purpose is, then going back and forth between the picture and the schematic can help you see what part of the schematic that piece is, and then from there try to understand its purpose.

 

Quote:

 

Oh, so it connects the negative and positive currents right? I am starting to understand.

 

 

you probably mean voltages, not current. to use an old analogy, current is like water; it goes in one direction or the other, but the flow is never negative.

 

with this circuit, there isn't quite a negative voltage either. the "negative" voltage comes from the virtual ground. everything needs to be connected to the same ground in order to have the same reference point; a voltage is a difference in potential between two points. if your circuit isn't properly grounded some parts may be off doing their own thing and not behaving how you'd expect it to with the rest of the circuit. since the opamps require a positive and negative voltage for power, the solution is the virtual ground. let's say you're using a 9v battery. that means the difference in potential between the positive and negative ends of the battery is 9v; for ease of calculations and such we say that the ground of the battery is 0. by introducing the virtual ground, which by design is halfway in between the positive and negative (4.5v in this case), and then using this plane as the reference point for everything else, we in effect now see the + side of the battery at 4.5v and the - side at -4.5v, with the virtual ground as 0v and everything else in the circuit grounded to that.


Edited by Soymilk - 9/12/10 at 12:35am
post #10 of 17

a physical representation is a helpful tool for when you are first starting to learn, but eventually you will move on to mainly just using schematics :)

 

also this isn't a good example for a helpful learning physical representation of a circuit since it emphasizes compactness so it's not very clear with what's going on.

post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soymilk View Post

i meant that more as a don't rely on the physical pictures to understand what the circuit's doing if you want to learn the design, but by all means ask questions. as mister x said, if you're looking at someone else's picture of a circuit and dont know what a particular piece's purpose is, then going back and forth between the picture and the schematic can help you see what part of the schematic that piece is, and then from there try to understand its purpose.

 

 

 

you probably mean voltages, not current. to use an old analogy, current is like water; it goes in one direction or the other, but the flow is never negative.

 

with this circuit, there isn't quite a negative voltage either. the "negative" voltage comes from the virtual ground. everything needs to be connected to the same ground in order to have the same reference point; a voltage is a difference in potential between two points. if your circuit isn't properly grounded some parts may be off doing their own thing and not behaving how you'd expect it to with the rest of the circuit. since the opamps require a positive and negative voltage for power, the solution is the virtual ground. let's say you're using a 9v battery. that means the difference in potential between the positive and negative ends of the battery is 9v; for ease of calculations and such we say that the ground of the battery is 0. by introducing the virtual ground, which by design is halfway in between the positive and negative (4.5v in this case), and then using this plane as the reference point for everything else, we in effect now see the + side of the battery at 4.5v and the - side at -4.5v, with the virtual ground as 0v and everything else in the circuit grounded to that.


So it balances the voltage to provide for the opamp?

post #12 of 17

that's a way to look at it.

 

disclaimer: i dont remember too much about how opamps work so i may be kind of incorrect on the following, but im pretty sure it's correct.

 

audio signals are ac signals (think sine wave) that are centered on the signal ground (for stereo audio, the channels are left/right/ground). the opamp's maximum output voltages are the +/- voltages powering it. If it didn't have the negative voltage and was instead connected to ground there, it wouldn't be able to output any negative voltages. when the audio signal goes above or below the maximum the opamp can put out, it just puts out the max. this is what clipping is; the signal is being clipped off at the voltages that try to go above the max.

 

let's say the negative side of the battery is 0v. by tieing everything to the virtual ground (including the ground channel from the audio), we are in effect level shifting the audio signal up by 4.5v (with our 9v battery example). this makes it so that the ac signal is now centered on 4.5v and wont clip (assuming the signal's magnitude never exceeds 4.5). if we had instead tied the ground to the negative side of the battery, since the opamp can only output from 0 to 9 volts and the sine wave is centered on 0v, you would only be able to output the positive half of the waveform. it's all a game of reference points; with it centered at 4.5, we can output both the positive and negative parts of the signal, and then by passing 4.5 as the ground for the output, your headphones will use that as the reference point that the audio signal is centered around. if you had passed on the 0v ground from the battery instead, your headphones would not be happy.

post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soymilk View Post

that's a way to look at it.

 

disclaimer: i dont remember too much about how opamps work so i may be kind of incorrect on the following, but im pretty sure it's correct.

 

audio signals are ac signals (think sine wave) that are centered on the signal ground (for stereo audio, the channels are left/right/ground). the opamp's maximum output voltages are the +/- voltages powering it. If it didn't have the negative voltage and was instead connected to ground there, it wouldn't be able to output any negative voltages. when the audio signal goes above or below the maximum the opamp can put out, it just puts out the max. this is what clipping is; the signal is being clipped off at the voltages that try to go above the max.

 

let's say the negative side of the battery is 0v. by tieing everything to the virtual ground (including the ground channel from the audio), we are in effect level shifting the audio signal up by 4.5v (with our 9v battery example). this makes it so that the ac signal is now centered on 4.5v and wont clip (assuming the signal's magnitude never exceeds 4.5). if we had instead tied the ground to the negative side of the battery, since the opamp can only output from 0 to 9 volts and the sine wave is centered on 0v, you would only be able to output the positive half of the waveform. it's all a game of reference points; with it centered at 4.5, we can output both the positive and negative parts of the signal, and then by passing 4.5 as the ground for the output, your headphones will use that as the reference point that the audio signal is centered around. if you had passed on the 0v ground from the battery instead, your headphones would not be happy.

So the ground is tying the negative voltage to the positive voltage by creating a mean voltage between the two? And in the Cmoy design it brings the two voltages to create a current to the (for lack of better terms) center part of the circuit for the opamp?
 

post #14 of 17
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterX View Post

Something like that.

 

http://tangentsoft.net/elec/vgrounds.html


Thanks! That helped a lot. Where does this "balanced" current go after it hits the opamp? Does it just stay in that "center" cross or does it travel all through the circuit?

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