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A few questions from a headphone newbie

post #1 of 4
9/10/10 at 4:51pm
Thread Starter 

Okay, I’m something of a newbie when it comes to headphones and associated gear.  I am, however, an experienced audiophile.  As such, I have a few questions where I hope to benefit from more experienced headphone users.

 

First up, to give an idea of what I’m looking for and where I’m at, my three home stereos are all quite good, ranging from entry level high-end for my two channel “home theater” (Cambridge Audio sources / NAD amp  / Joseph Audio) to high end for my main rig (complete Naim front end / Rega turntable / Joseph Audio), with a mix in the bedroom (Naim CD player, integrated, and power supply / Rega tuner / Marantz DVD / Monitor Audio).   I’m basically a Naim devotee when it comes to electronics, and I place more emphasis on the electronics than the speakers.  When it comes to speakers I only really like dynamic speakers, with little interest in electrostats, panels, or horns.  Oh, and Nagra aside, I do not like tube gear.  In terms of sound quality, I like clarity and detail, scale, and a good sense of boogie (or PRAT, if you will). Other traits like soundstaging and imaging, while nice to have, are not of particular concern to me.  As to musical preference, I listen to classical music about 90% of the time, mostly centered on solo piano music, with rock and jazz making up the remainder. 

 

Recently, I contracted the headphone bug.  I picked up some Sennheiser HD 515s to use with my Sony portable CD player at work and with my home theater system.  (The 515s replaced an older pair of cheap eH150s.)  The 515s produced some fine sound in both setups.  However, I was not ultimately satisfied with the headphone jack on my NAD integrated or the portable, so I decided to buy a used Creek OBH 11 with the upgraded power supply and feed it from my main rig.  The sound improved markedly, as I expected it to.  So now I’m at a crossroads of sorts.

 

I am aware of the wide variety of headphone amps out there, much more so now that I have been perusing this site for a while.  My questions related to headphone amps are:

 

  1. How much better do more expensive headphone amps get?
  2. What is the approximate price point of diminishing returns? 
  3. Are the differences between solid state and tube more or less the same with headphone amps as with standard amps?
  4. Are headphone amps more important than the headphones themselves, are they about equal, or are headphones of prime importance?  What’s the best approach?
  5. Has anyone done any comparisons between the Naim Headline and various other headphone amps?  (I did search the forum and got some results, but it seems that Naim is not too frequently mentioned or used here.)  I ask this because being a Naimie, and having an extra power supply currently underutilized in the bedroom system, I could go for a Naim Headline / HiCap combo for the price of the Headline alone.  I will confess, though, that when it comes to headphones and associated gear, I’m not sure Naim is the way to go.  I guess I want more flexibility here.

 

To drive whatever headphones I end up with, I’m thinking that maybe a Schiit Asgard may be the way to go, particularly since it appears to produce a smooth sound based on what I’ve read.  When I sit back and listen to headphones, that is a most attractive proposition, even if some detail is sacrificed.  Would there be another brand out there to consider?  My price limitation would be around a grand for the amp, though that’s not etched in stone.

 

When it comes to headphones, it seems that I have found the sound I like with Sennheiser.  I recently tried three different sets of Grado headphones – the SR80i, SR125i, and SR325i, all with a Grado amp and Pro-Ject amp, and I didn’t really like any of them.  The highs were too pronounced and fatiguing, at least when compared to Sennheiser.  Are there any other brands out there to try that may be closer in style to Sennheiser while offering a slightly different take?  I ask this because when I do buy a higher end set of cans, I’m currently leaning toward either the HD650 or HD800.  I’m thinking I want to buy right the first time and not worry about it, so if there’s something else out there, it makes sense to try in the near future.

 

If this post should be in another forum, please let me know.  And thanks to anyone who managed to read the whole post and offer any input.

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post #2 of 4
9/13/10 at 3:35pm

The Asgard is probably a good place to start amp wise.  I haven't heard it myself, but the reviews are generally positive and its not a whole lot of money.  For the tube vs solid state debate, I think it makes more sense for headphone amps than speaker amps because you don't need anywhere near as much power, so they're easier and cheaper to make.

 

Regarding what 'phones to pick, the HD650s and HD800s are very different headphones.  The 800s are a bit bright, lack bass, and focus on soundstage.  The 650s are a little dark with more bass, and less treble, but not nearly the same soundstage.

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post #3 of 4
9/13/10 at 4:34pm
You do get improvements with better headphone amps. The point of diminishing returns is different for solid state and tubes. For solid state, you can get great performance for several hundred. Something like a Dynalo/Gilmore Lite or a M^3 will give you great performance. The, arguably, best SS amp currently available is probably the Beta22. It's my favorite.

Tubes require around $1,000 or better to find one that isn't compromised to save costs. Tubes done right is almost always more expensive than solid state done right. The big iron tubes need is pricey.

I strongly believe that headphones are the biggest factor in sound quality after recording quality. I disagree that the HD-800 has poor bass, I think it is just about right. It especially does well with classical, too. However, if you're willing to spend that much, keep an eye out for a used AKG K-1000. Brilliant headphone and it'll solve your amp problem. The K-1000 was designed to run off a speaker amp, so you'll be able to connect it to your current rig and save quite a bit of money. The K-1000 is excellent with classical and would be a good fit for you.
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post #4 of 4
9/13/10 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

I disagree that the HD-800 has poor bass, I think it is just about right. It especially does well with classical, too. However, if you're willing to spend that much, keep an eye out for a used AKG K-1000. Brilliant headphone and it'll solve your amp problem. The K-1000 was designed to run off a speaker amp, so you'll be able to connect it to your current rig and save quite a bit of money. The K-1000 is excellent with classical and would be a good fit for you.


The bass on the HD800s certainly isn't of poor quality.  I think it does need a bit more quantity though.  Especially the sub bass.  Neither the 800 or 650 does the sub bass particularly well, but for an extra grand over the 650s I'm going to be a heck of a lot pickier, and I suspect most other people would be as well.

 

x2 for the K1000s though.  You won't need to buy another amp and even if you don't like them you'll be able to sell them for pretty much what you paid for them so you won't lose anything but time to try it out.

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