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Review: Beyerdynamic T1 vs Sennheiser HD800 - Page 5

post #61 of 112

Yes it's being run balanced from my DAC25.2. You get a lot more volume in balanced mode than in SE mode.

 

For some reason RCA is much louder than balanced when you run in balanced operation. I don't understand this at all..


Edited by Zombie_X - 9/12/10 at 9:11am
post #62 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

Yes it's being run balanced from my DAC25.2. You get a lot more volume in balanced mode than in SE mode.

 

For some reason RCA is much louder than balanced when you run in balanced operation. I don't understand this at all..

I hope you don't mind, but could you elaborate on the sonic differences between a SE T1 and a balanced one?

 

post #63 of 112

What can you say.. Flawless execution.. & yes, how dare I quote this long post..:)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

Review: Beyerdynamic T1 vs Sennheiser HD800
dynamic full-size open headphones

www.beyerdynamic.com
www.sennheiser.com
USA retail prices at press time:
T1: $1295.00
HD800: $1399.95

originally published: September 6, 2010

- download a printable 8-page PDF version of this review (right-click the link & save target)
- download a printable 9-page PDF version of the notes that were written for this review (right-click the link & save target). The notes contain much more detailed info broken down by individual CD tracks and will probably be worth reading for those seeking even more info to assist with a buying decision (or for those who merely want some insight into my reviewing process). The notes should be considered a supplement and not a replacement for this review (as the review is not straight from the notes) - I recommend reading this review first and then reading the notes.

 

Note: I will revisit this thread for only up to the next 30 days to answer any questions that might be posted and will not answer any questions past 30 days. Please do not send PMs at anytime as I will not respond.

Intro

As is typical of previous reviews I've written on Head-Fi, the review that follows below is a comparative one - because writing about only one headphone does not put anything into context and without context it's impossible for anyone to determine how a headphone might sound through inference. In fact, this review assumes that the reader has heard one of the headphones that were used as a comparative reference - be it the T1 or HD800 themselves, or the AKG K701, Audio-Technica AD2000, Grado HP1000/HP2, or Sony Qualia 010. But for those who have not heard one of those headphones, I have also tried to accommodate for that as well, drawing from my cumulative headphone experience gained since 2006 through either buying/selling or exposure at Head-Fi meets. (All gear I've heard is listed in my profile for reference.)

Reviewer Biases & Info

My view of a headphone system is "source first" followed by headphones and then amp. In other words, a source of highest quality possible (assuming recordings of high quality also) should be paired with the most preferential-sounding headphone(s), to be driven by the most technically-optimal amp. In my view, the most technically-optimal amp is the one that provides sufficient power for all headphones being used without inflecting its own sonic signature, or minimally at least.

Some portions of the review below refer to the sound of live instruments. As an FYI to put those references into the proper context, I'm a trained violinist (learned via the Suzuki method for 12 years starting at age 6, then quit lessons at 18 and have been playing on and off since, and I'm 29 now) and have had the opportunity several times to play in a symphony orchestra, and I've attended classical-music concerts as well.

Equipment Setup

- Source component: Plinius CD-101 (CD player) (power cord: Signal Cable Silver Resolution Reference - directly into wall)
- RCA interconnects: BPT IC-SL
- Headphone amplifier: Rockhopper-built Balanced M3 (used in unbalanced mode)
- Other comparison headphones: AKG K701 (re-cabled with SAA Equinox), Audio-Technica AD2000 (re-cabled with APS V3), Grado HP1000/HP2 (re-cabled with APS V3), Sony Qualia 010 (re-cabled with Moon Audio Black Dragon)

Sennheiser HD800 vs AKG K701

Music used for this comparison:
- Alison Krauss & Union Station - Lonely Runs Both Ways - "A Living Prayer"
- Alison Krauss & Union Station - New Favorite - "The Lucky One"
- Carlos Kleiber w/ Vienna - Beethoven Symphonies No. 5 & 7 - No. 5 - "Allegro con brio"
- Eva Cassidy - Live at Blues Alley - "Autumn Leaves"
- Julia Fischer - Bach Concertos - Concerto for 2 violins in D minor - "I. Vivace", "III. Allegro"
- Massive Attack - Mezzanine - "Teardrop"
- Pierre Boulez w/ Vienna - Mahler Symphony No. 6 - "I. Allegro energico"
- Porcupine Tree - In Absentia - "Blackest Eyes"
- Priscilla Ahn - A Good Day - "Dream"
- Radiohead - In Rainbows - "Reckoner"
- Zero 7 - When It Falls - "Home"

It could be said that female vocals are one of the K701's strengths, as they're typically very prominent on the headphone as a result of being pushed forward in the mix. This can work for certain female vocalists, like Eva Cassidy and the ones part of Zero 7's group, but not all, notably Alison Krauss. Having heard Alison Krauss on other headphones, including live (at a music festival earlier this year in Colorado), I would say that the K701 portrayed her completely wrong - Alison does not have a particularly "strong" or "powerful" voice and typically sings at lower volumes too, but to make up for it her voice is crystal clear with an extremely "radiant" quality. I found that the K701 unnecessarily added to her lower vocal range and made her sound more "sultry" than "angelic." This was not the case on the HD800, which made her voice sound more correct at a higher register and also maintained her clarity and radiance. The HD800 also made Priscilla Ahn sound more authentic too, retaining the youthful "little girl" quality to her voice, while the K701 tuned her voice away from that "little girl" to something a bit more lower-pitched.

It's been said by other people on Head-Fi that the HD800 is a better version of the K701, but in actual comparative listening between the two headphones, I did not find many similarities to be able to call the HD800 a version of the K701 - in fact, I found more differences between them than similarities. Both headphones have a large soundstage, but I found the HD800 to have the bigger one, injecting more air and space into the music than the K701 - or in other words, displacing instruments more and translating displacement as a sort of reverb-type effect, like a larger auditorium than the K701 with more acoustically-reflective surfaces. The HD800 also had better frequency extension than the K701, by a wide enough margin that I would call it better in that aspect. The K701 for example missed the second-half of the 3rd note of the heartbeat rhythm on Massive Attack's "Teardrop" but the HD800 was able to audibly resolve this note. The HD800's treble was also able to clearly highlight aspects like guitar plucks, sliding, & string vibrations, cymbal tizzes, and other percussive impacts, while these were largely blurred over by the K701. Granted, the HD800 had a higher degree of clarity throughout the entire spectrum but its treble also brought out the aforementioned details more.

It's probably easier to contrast the two headphones overall - the K701 projected a large soundstage and brought forward the female vocal range while displacing everything else, gently rolled off the treble and bass, and exerted a high degree of control over the entire bass range. The HD800 projected an even larger soundstage with a noticeable "whoosh" of air within it, sounding flatter and significantly clearer throughout the mid-range, with more treble and bass extension & quantity - on the HD800, bass actually boomed and thudded, if it was there on the recording. The K701 also typically sounded better louder, but the HD800 sounded good even at moderate volume and maintained sonic integrity at lower volumes too. The two headphones also reacted differently at very high volume - the K701 sounded "harder" and lost control over multiple concurrent layers (blurring them as a result) while the HD800 didn't break its character and simply just sounded louder. There was also a different style between them - the HD800 simply sounded passive more than anything else, lacking a "directness" to the sound, and sounded more like a headphone playing music for you to analyze by ear. The K701 had a passive sound too but hid behind it better due to its smaller soundstage and closer instrument positioning for a more personal type of sound - in contrast to the HD800, which came across more as away & detached.

There are also some really critical points I have to assess against the HD800 (and K701) for classical music. While everyone may have their own sonic preference, there are certain things that some people will want and others won't. For example, violin tonality - which honestly I've heard very few headphones get correct, and neither the K701 nor the HD800 made violins sound natural. The K701 was too "dark" on them and didn't bring out their treble "brilliance," but the HD800 was too "bright" on them and made them sound too wispy and glossy. The K701 also struggled to separate individual violins in the two sections, but this was easily pulled off by the HD800. The HD800 also had better "macrodynamics," giving more impact & power into sudden volume bursts than the K701. The HD800 also had a faster impulse response that allowed it to better resolve minor details like rolling timpani and pizzicato. Yet, for all these seeming advantages of the HD800, its expanded soundstage & air was actually distracting and key tonalities were off too - violins as already mentioned, but also brass which didn't sound very sonorous.

Sennheiser HD800 vs Grado HP1000/HP2 (flat pads)

Music used for this comparison:
- Julia Fischer - Bach Concertos - Concerto for 2 violins in D minor - "III. Allegro"
- Zubin Mehta w/ Vienna - Mahler Symphony No. 2 - "III. In ruhig flieBender Bewegung"

There were just two musical selections for this comparison to answer just one question: would the venerable Grado HP1K make a stronger case for classical music? Answer: it depends on how you like your classical music to sound. The HD800 was vastly clearer-sounding with a lot more separation between the instruments - or in other words, the position of every instrument section was very discrete and widely spread out across the soundstage. The HP1000, on the other hand, had a compressed soundstage in comparison, almost 2D-like flat and not as wide. But then soundstage is not one of the HP1000's strengths, and neither is clarity, as any owner or fan of it could tell you.

The key strength of the HP1000 is what many of its fans call its "neutral" sound. I think "natural" is a better word for the HP1K, as it gave instruments the kind of sonic texture they need to sound authentic with a real presence, to transcend the headphone experience and make you think you're listening to real instruments (in terms of their sonic texture and body only, not necessarily because of anything else). "Musical" is a vague word but it's one of the words that came to mind listening to the HP1K versus the HD800, because with the HP1K it was easier to focus on the actual music - its concept, its style, its character. With the HD800, it was a lot less than that - it was easier to merely focus on listening to the instrument sections than the actual musical concept. Not that the HP1K's mid-range-focused sound had anything to do with this (whereas the HD800 could probably be considered treble-focused). No, it was completely in their contrasting presentations - the HD800's splitting/separation/diffusion (whatever you want to call it) versus the HP1K's cohesion and integration. The HD800 made it easier to follow the individual instrument sections as a result (sacrificing tonality and "musicality"), and the HP1K made it easier to follow the musical picture (sacrificing clarity and soundstage). To quantify this in a frequency sense, if one considers the HD800 to lack mid-range, then the HP1000 might be a polar opposite (and vice versa).

Beyerdynamic T1 vs AKG K701

Music used for this comparison:
- Alison Krauss & Union Station - Lonely Runs Both Ways - "A Living Prayer"
- Pierre Boulez w/ Vienna - Mahler Symphony No. 6 - "I. Allegro energico"
- Priscilla Ahn - A Good Day - "Dream"
- Radiohead - In Rainbows - "Reckoner"

Now that I personally dispelled for myself the idea that the K701 was not a substandard version of the HD800, a different thought came to mind: would the K701 be a substandard version of the T1 instead? Actually....incidentally that's exactly what I discovered. Yes, the T1 is a better version of the K701! Wait...what?! I had to re-check this many times to confirm, but I indeed found that the K701 and T1 actually had some overall similarities, enough that one might be able to call the T1 an improved version of the K701. But first, before getting to the sonic differences, both headphones tended to sound better loud, though it was the K701 that sonically broke apart at high volume (while the T1 maintained its sonic integrity).

Now what were the similarities? Well, neither headphone had particularly good treble and were both rolled off (preventing me from enjoying the actual bluegrass songs on the Alison Krauss CD, hence the use of only the last track), their soundstages were similarly-sized (more on that in a bit), and they both sounded less than clear (compared to the HD800 at least, let alone the Sony SA5000/Qualia 010, or the JH Audio JH13 IEMs).

There were plenty of differences to note though, almost all of which could be considered improvements from the K701. First, the K701 seemed to exaggerate vocal power on both Alison Krauss and Priscilla Ahn (as neither of them have powerful voices which is why it was noticeable) while the T1 minimized this, though it too sort of had this effect, just not as much. Vocalists who don't have powerful lungs shouldn't sound like they do, right? And the T1 did the more convincing job at conveying how these two female singers should sound. The soundstage also seemed to be more accurate on the T1 (but not completely) - just a bit more air injected than the K701, but not too much to have the almost cavern-like acoustics of the HD800, while placing instruments further away (like more to the left or right) and displacing the female vocals (that the K701 routinely brought forward) for a better 3D sense of depth and width. The T1 also had more clarity overall than the K701 (but not as much as the HD800), for example allowing proper distinction of the left-channel acoustic guitar and right-channel acoustic bass in the Priscilla Ahn track. There was also a certain type of detail that the T1 routinely captured that the K701 didn't: the "resonance" an instrument like an acoustic double-bass or guitar can exhibit when the right note is played and the instrument vibrates along with the string to add a kind of "warmth" to the sound.

The T1 was also a significant step up from the K701 on classical music - with good clarity on the opening double-basses on Boulez's Mahler #6 for example, capturing their fast bow strokes and the similarly fast bow strokes from the violins. The horns filled the acoustic space more than on the K701 with a good amount of sonority and their position relative to the trumpets was better delineated too. The T1 also caught the pizzicato of the violins and the rat-a-tats of the snare drum, which were largely missed by the K701.

Beyerdynamic T1 vs Grado HP1000/HP2 (flat pads)

Music used for this comparison:
- Carlos Kleiber w/ Vienna - Beethoven Symphonies No. 5 & 7 - No. 5 - "Allegro con brio"
- Dave Brubeck - Time Out [Legacy Edition] - "Blue Rondo a la Turk"
- Julia Fischer - Bach Concertos - Concerto for 2 violins in D minor - "III. Allegro"
- Lee Morgan - Tom Cat [XRCD] - "Twice Around"
- Medeski Martin & Wood - Uninvisible - "Uninvisible", "Ten Dollar High"
- Pierre Boulez w/ Vienna - Mahler Symphony No. 6 - "I. Allegro energico"
- Steve Kuhn - Mostly Coltrane - "Song of Praise"
- Weather Report - Heavy Weather [1997] - "Birdland", "A Remark You Made"

If there was a commonality throughout all of the jazz music selections on the Grado HP2, it was that they all sounded good - but more specifically, it sounded like the featured instruments (which were mostly saxophones or trumpets) were playing at me, not just for me or in front of me, but like their directed point of focus was towards the listener. This made all of the jazz sound really personal and very direct on the HP2. Combined with the HP2's thick and very full mid-range, it was like sitting right in there with the jazz group and jamming along with them.

Throwing the T1 into the mix produced some interesting results, not all of which were positive. On Weather Report's "Birdland" for example, the T1 sounded like it had less mid-range body on the instruments, almost making them sound lightweight even, coming immediately after the HP2. The T1 also made the piano on this song sound almost like a honky-tonk piano - which neither the HP2 (or the HD800) did, it was only the T1. And on Steve Kuhn's "Song of Praise," the HP2 delivered the most closest-positioned, soulful-sounding tenor sax with a fantastically rich tone - but the T1, on the other hand, displaced the tenor sax and almost made it sound like not part of the jazz group due to its positioning. And on Lee Morgan's "Twice Around," the HP2 had the fullest- and most direct-sounding trumpet, alto sax, and drums, with a fantastic sense of the group interacting with each other. The HP2 also made it really easy to tell apart the trumpet, alto sax, and trombone too - not so much with the T1 though, and even less so with the HD800, which lost a portion of these brass instruments' textures.

The T1 was better in other aspects though, like conveying a more realistic brighter-tuned piano on Dave Brubeck's "Blue Rondo a la Turk" (it was a little too heavy-sounding on the HP2) and providing harder impacts on the piano keys (the HP2 blunted these impacts). The T1 also produced a significantly clearer-sounding bass on Medeski Martin & Wood's "Uninvisible" with a great ground-shaking bass reverberation (proving itself to have better bass extension than the HP2). And on MM&W's "Ten Dollar High," the T1 properly captured the variety of different instrumental inflections and physical movements & interactions.

And to go back to the topic of realistic tonality of violins in classical music, the HP2 eclipsed the T1. Violins simply sounded more correct/realistic/natural on the HP2 versus the T1. The T1 made them sound just a bit too dark, as the HP2 actually gave a bit more treble sheen to them. But to the T1's credit, the HP2 sounded muffled in comparison - again, clarity isn't exactly one of the HP2's strengths. For some reason though, I ended up concluding that the HP2 required the most "psychoacoustic acclimation" (compared to the T1 and HD800) to really get a transcendental experience for classical music.

Sennheiser HD800 vs Beyerdynamic T1

Music used for this comparison:
- Anne Bisson - Blue Mind - "Camilio"
- Beyond Twilight - Section X - "The Path of Darkness"
- Global Communication - 76:14 - "4:02", "9:39"
- In Flames - The Jester Race - "Moonshield", "Artifacts of the Black Rain"
- Julia Fischer - Bach Concertos - Concerto for 2 violins in D minor - "III. Allegro"
- Katie Melua - Piece by Piece - "Shy Boy", "On the Road Again"
- Laika - Good Looking Blues - "Widows' Weed"
- Medeski Martin & Wood - Uninvisible - "Uninvisible", "Ten Dollar High"
- Megadeth - Countdown to Extinction [MFSL] - "Sweating Bullets"
- Meshuggah - Chaosphere - "New Millennium Cyanide Christ"
- Nightwish - Once - "Wish I Had An Angel", "Planet Hell"
- Orbital - The Middle of Nowhere - "Way Out"
- Pearl Jam - Ten - "Even Flow", "Alive"
- Rage Against The Machine - Rage Against The Machine - "Bombtrack", "Take The Power Back", "Know Your Enemy"
- Symphony X - Paradise Lost - "Oculus Ex Inferni", "Set the World on Fire", "The Walls of Babylon"
- The Crystal Method - Tweekend - "Murder", "Ten Miles Back"
- The Crystal Method - Vegas [Deluxe Edition] - "High Roller"
- The Prodigy - The Fat of the Land - "Smack My Bitch Up", "Breathe", "Diesel Power", "Fuel My Fire"
- Trifonic - Emergence - "Emergence", "Transgenic"

And finally for the real showdown, the so-called big guns. Which is the better headphone, the HD800 or T1? Well anyone reading this will probably expect my answer: it's not really that simple and both headphones have their strengths and weaknesses.

I'll start with the recurring subject of violin tonality in classical music, because personally it's a big issue for me as a violinist. My position is: if the violins don't sound real, forget it! And neither the HD800 or T1 delivered realistic violin tone - the HD800 was too bright and wispy and the T1 wasn't "light" enough. What does one do as a solution then? You get the right headphones - and in my case that usually means the Stax OII MKI amped by the HeadAmp BHSE, which achieves the perfect tone. No other headphones need apply. Bam, done. Can't afford the OII/BHSE? IMO the next best solution after that is the Grado HP1000, or if that one is too expensive also, then the Sennheiser HD600.

Next subject, electronica. For ambient electronica specifically, only the Sennheiser HD800 was remotely good enough to do it justice, while the T1 was not, primarily due to the HD800's superior overall clarity, treble tilt, and faster impulse response. Ambient electronica is often buried in lots of layers (more than the average song in any other music genre) and requires a very hi-fi transducer to reveal them all cleanly and clearly - and in the case of Global Communication, Laika, and Trifonic, only the HD800 had the right amount of "clean & clear" to make these artists sound good. The T1 didn't have the silent background required for this type of music and its lack of treble and clarity worked against the type of detail inherent to ambient electronica. Not that the HD800 was perfect though, it was just better at this - as there are other headphones that have even more "clean & clear" sounds, like the Sony SA5000 & Qualia 010. For more bass-driven electronica like The Crystal Method, The Prodigy, etc, the T1 is probably a better choice than the HD800, but not the best one there is. The T1 had more bass quantity in general and delivered a good amount of bass impact and its low extension nearly matched the Audio-Technica AD2000's too. But the T1 didn't deliver a particularly strong bass overall and its slow impulse response held it back from being ideal - the Audio-Technica AD2000 probably being a better choice for people who want a powerful low bass response that's also extremely fast.

Metal is a tricky genre for headphones to handle, as it goes in a lot of different directions. But if there's one commonality in most of metal, it's speed combined with aggression, and the HD800 was consistently too passive-sounding to really get into metal and give it that needed aggression. I will say simply that the HD800 was boring with metal, and who wants boring metal? The T1, on the other hand, was a much better choice for metal, primarily due to its fuller mid-range/mid-bass and smaller soundstage, allowing every band to sound closer and more personal. The T1 simply had a very good direct and assertive sound that made it work very well for a wide variety of metal. However, the T1 wasn't completely ideal for some types of metal, like thrash metal, as its impulse response couldn't quite keep up with some of the faster sequences. For that type of metal, another headphone would be recommended instead, and I've personally gotten better experiences for thrash metal with the Audio-Technica AD2000, JH Audio JH13, and Stax OII MKI.

And finally, jazzy or pop female vocals is one of the most pedestrian forms of music, as it's typically easy for almost any headphone to sound good with and the artists spun for this (Anne Bisson, Katie Melua) didn't really reveal much that wasn't already discovered before, other than perhaps that piano was more realistic sounding on the T1 with its generally richer tone.

Summary

The HD800 and T1 both turned out to be fine-sounding headphones and have a lot of qualities that many people would probably like. Neither was the last word in headphones that I've heard though, and as is always the case in headphones, there are always trade-offs. At the same time, I found both of these headphones to be less than stellar - but then again, out of all of the headphones that have ever been made, few are truly stellar anyway, so I guess that's not that bad. But at the >$1K price range I think one could probably find better headphone or earphone investments, because honestly I think the HD800 and T1 are both overpriced and don't belong in the >$1K category based on their sound. If they were more around the $500-$1K range I would probably call them more fairly priced relative to the competition.

post #64 of 112


Those 3 qualities sell headphones.. The majority of people in general prefer hot treble, BASS, & speaker like SS.. I think most audiophiles can agree.. The mid range makes or breaks a headphone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhanja_trinanjan View Post


 


Bro, my hearing tells me that both the K-702 and the T1 have ENOUGH BASS. Tight fisted control, accurate pitch, what more do you want for bowed bass or orchestral bass drums? My only wish is that the sweet presence that the K-702 gives to female voices should cover the entire midrange, not just a small window of ripeness and clarity. That's all.

 

I think all headphone makers should now stop going for better bass/treble/SS... just work on the mids.

post #65 of 112

Excuse my single post.. I never expected to post more then once.. I wouldn't exactly call the T1 a concept aka, state of the art headphone. They use the same ring design & similiar drivers (different mineral composition. The T1 uses neodyum) as the much aligned 73 yr old DT48. MR Groof from Beyers stated as much, but to be fair, the T1 utilizes 3 rings with better quality parts. But charging 1295 for a headphone based in part on a 73 yr old design is a bit much IMO.. Wasn't the Telsa idea around since the 1920's? The HD800 is a true concept headphone IMO.. They didn't reach back in their playbook & use something from their 414 headphone that I'm aware of.. In that regard, I respect Sen more for that.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by donthuang View Post


Quote:

Originally Posted by bhanja_trinanjan View Post

T1 a refined K-701?? My ears just don't agree.

 

As a T1 user, I agreed T1 and K701 shares some common feature.

 

1.They are both try to make a "pin-point" imaging, although takes very different way.

2.They both have very flexible treble enegry and clarity.

 

 

But as a per se DT990 user, i would say T1 is more like a refined DT990. Not that "Mid-recessed"  talks, but with a extra definite depth of field and nice smooth mid-highs.

 

 

Although not cheap, I think T1 and HD800's ask price are reasonable,  the two headphones are concept headphone,at least., like B&W Nautilus and Dynaudio Evidence, or Sonus Faber Stradivari and Franco Serblin Ktêma (in the terms of spatial tricks)

post #66 of 112

When balanced the T1 is snappier sounding with more bass control and also has improved dynamics. Imaging also improves a bit.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reiserFS View Post

I hope you don't mind, but could you elaborate on the sonic differences between a SE T1 and a balanced one?

 

post #67 of 112


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post

Excuse my single post.. I never expected to post more then once.. I wouldn't exactly call the T1 a concept aka, state of the art headphone. They use the same ring design & similiar drivers (different mineral composition. The T1 uses neodyum) as the much aligned 73 yr old DT48. MR Groof from Beyers stated as much, but to be fair, the T1 utilizes 3 rings with better quality parts. But charging 1295 for a headphone based in part on a 73 yr old design is a bit much IMO.. Wasn't the Telsa idea around since the 1920's? The HD800 is a true concept headphone IMO.. They didn't reach back in their playbook & use something from their 414 headphone that I'm aware of.. In that regard, I respect Sen more for that.
 


 


The T1 wheter new technology or not is a great headphone. Sometimes people analyze so much they may forget how they sound which IMO is most important. Planar technol;ogy is around as well as electrostatic for many moons. There has not really been any major technology changes made on transducers in a very long time.

post #68 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

When balanced the T1 is snappier sounding with more bass control and also has improved dynamics. Imaging also improves a bit.

Much appreciating your thoughts on this, thanks.

 

post #69 of 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post

Excuse my single post.. I never expected to post more then once.. I wouldn't exactly call the T1 a concept aka, state of the art headphone. They use the same ring design & similiar drivers (different mineral composition. The T1 uses neodyum) as the much aligned 73 yr old DT48. MR Groof from Beyers stated as much, but to be fair, the T1 utilizes 3 rings with better quality parts. But charging 1295 for a headphone based in part on a 73 yr old design is a bit much IMO.. Wasn't the Telsa idea around since the 1920's? The HD800 is a true concept headphone IMO.. They didn't reach back in their playbook & use something from their 414 headphone that I'm aware of.. In that regard, I respect Sen more for that.
 


 

 

I don't think T1 is the same design principle to DT48, in fact uses neodymium magnet in open magnetic circuit is something new to headphone design, just like HD800's "ring radiator" ,but those things not new to driver manufacturers like seas, scanspeaks, morel or Vifa.

 

T1's other "new" thing is the optimize bass-reflex system, with angled resonator baffle, without internal damping.

I think Beyer really have some crazy engineers.  lol

 

It's not kind of Mercedes-Benz,but Tesla Roadster.

 


Edited by donthuang - 9/12/10 at 5:37pm
post #70 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by donthuang View Post
 

 

I don't think T1 is the same design principle to DT48, in fact uses neodymium magnet in open magnetic circuit is something new to headphone design, just like HD800's "ring radiator" ,but those things not new to driver manufacturers like seas, scanspeaks, morel or Vifa.

 

T1's other "new" thing is the optimize bass-reflex system, with angled resonator baffle, without internal damping.

I think Beyer really have some crazy engineers.  lol

 

It's not kind of Mercedes-Benz,but Tesla Roadster.

 

 

And it sounds absolutely fantastic (and quite a step up from all the other beyer models).
 

post #71 of 112

It is a great can and was significantly better IMO than most other I have heard. That being said everyone has their preferences and I still wait for my turn to listen to the LCD2 and then Ibe done buying as all the money for toys iis gone. I do agree at 1295.00 they are overpriced But he market will determine that i guess. I think they are all overpriced LOL. I remember saying I would never pay 1G for a can so I did for two. LMAO

post #72 of 112

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post

Excuse my single post.. I never expected to post more then once.. I wouldn't exactly call the T1 a concept aka, state of the art headphone. They use the same ring design & similiar drivers (different mineral composition. The T1 uses neodyum) as the much aligned 73 yr old DT48. MR Groof from Beyers stated as much, but to be fair, the T1 utilizes 3 rings with better quality parts. But charging 1295 for a headphone based in part on a 73 yr old design is a bit much IMO.. Wasn't the Telsa idea around since the 1920's? The HD800 is a true concept headphone IMO.. They didn't reach back in their playbook & use something from their 414 headphone that I'm aware of.. In that regard, I respect Sen more for that.
 


Its difficult to say where the fail in this post starts. It certainly dosnt end.

 

Regarding magnets:

Better than 99% of all headphones use neodymium magnets. Sorry. 

 

Do you know that better than 99% of all cars use piston rings, just like the first otto-cycle engine ever made! To think someone would have the nerve to charge milions of dollars for an engine that still uses technology invented before the 1860's

 

Regarding the DT48:

Ok, umm, yea. a driver that was intended to replace crystal headphones. Sorry, they stopped being SOTA when sennheiser came out with the HD-414 if not before.

 

How much further is the T1 based on the DT-48? 

 

Stating that charging (insert any amount) is excessive because a given thing uses technology that dates back many years is 100% bull. A quick google search returned the wikipedia page which credits the invention of the moving coil loudspeaker to roughly 1898, I cant believe Beyerdynamic would stoop so low to use technology that was roughly 40 years old when they built the DT48, what a load. I cant believe people would listen to a headphone that was designed in 1937 STILL considering advancements in materials, process control, and overal design but the world amazes me.

 

You said:

"Wasnt the tesla idea around since the 1920's?"

WHAT!? Tesla was not credited with the invention of the moving coil loudspeaker, Oliver Lodge is credited with the concept in 1898 (per wikipedia) Tesla is the name of the SI unit of magnetic force. It must be nice to have a unit of measure named after you.

 

REgarding the senn HD414:

Its hard to say where the fail starts and ends in this 1 sentance, let alone the post. So much fail, so little text. Some people have a knack for it.

I'l give it to you if you cant figure it out on your own:

Things Sennheiser re-used from the HD414 in the HD580, 600, 650, and 800

User removable cables. Although these were seen previously on senn cans they are still kicking this old technology. HD414 cables are perfect fits for HD580/600/650

Moving coil speakers. There it is again, I think I read somewhere that this was a beyerdynamic invention, but I openly question the poster. 

Open back headphones. The innovation that brought headphones into an acceptable level of quality. 

 

Its hard to get so much fail into so little text, you should be proud.

post #73 of 112
There's a big difference between an original innovation and later use. Just because something was developed 70 years ago doesn't mean that a modern implementation is the same.
post #74 of 112

lol NG.

 

I'm surprised you gave bubba the time of day when you could of just posted:

 

 

cheese_fail.jpg

 

fail28.jpg

 

fail19.jpg

 

 

(Sorry for the hotlinking. I was in a rush. Mods can remove if needed.)

post #75 of 112

Thanks for making my day NG. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post

Its difficult to say where the fail in this post starts. It certainly dosnt end.

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