Grado SR225i versus SR325i - Am I just paying for the Metal???

You're paying for slightly deeper bass and brighter highs, plus a leather headband and an allegedly better cable. However, many say the SR325is' highs are too bright, and the bass can be exceeded on the SR225i by taping the perimeter of the bowls with electrical tape. Plus, the SR325is is significantly heavier (11.4oz vs 8oz.)

My experience when I "upgraded" from my SR225i to the SR325is was complete disappointment. Was there more bass? Slightly, but the hot treble did not offset this improvement. As well, the comfort factor really suffered with the much heavier housing. I thought it was a step back.

The SR225i is a sweet spot in the Grado lineup until you jump to the RS1i .

I have both cans in front of me.  To be specific, I have the SR225i and the SR325is, which was boxed as a 325i, but it's silver and comes with a four-connector "garden hose" cable.  I also have a splitter cable that lets me connect both cans simultaneously so I can A/B them easily.  My M^3 with variable bass boost would make both cans sound wonderful, which is why I've decided to run them both off my MacBook Pro.  I'm not looking for heaven.  I'm looking for something a little closer to Earth.  I've modded both headphones, venting the drivers completely (all ten holes) to get the maximum bass output from portable devices like the iPod.

I started off with the 325 on The Police's Synchronicity.  What struck me was the bass, a nice thump-thump-thump of kick drums.  Switching to the 225s, I'm surprised at the differences in presentation.  I'm not sure, at first, how to describe it.  I don't know if there's a difference in burn-in but the 225s sound clearer, even if the 325s have slightly more authoritative bass.  

Next song: The Beatles' I'm Happy Just To Dance With You.  The differences on this track from 1964 are more subtle.  Both do a nice job of grabbing that midrange detail, especially the picking.  Not to speak out of both sides of my mouth but now the 325 seems to have an edge in clarity and resolution.  Why would that be?  I decide to A/B them both a second time.  Same results.  Go figure.

On the 325, Billy Joel's Close to the Borderline has a tight thump reminiscent of the HF2.  Very nice.  On the 225, it's not as pronounced but now I'm convinced that it has the edge in clarity.  Strike that.  Going back to the 325, I'm inclined to give it the edge.  But then, on playing the song a second time, I'm again impressed with the 225.  What kind of a review is this?  Going back for another pass, I turn up the volume and find a set of tradeoffs: The 325 is more engaging but also more strident.  It sounds more intimate (indicative of a slightly higher output in the high-mids) which is both blessing and curse.  The 225 is safer, possibly a hair more distant (again because of a slight difference in high-mid presence).

Switching to the Clash's Red Angel Dragnet, the 225 is slightly more laid back while the 325 is a tad more present.  If veiled would be too strong a word for the 225, shrill would be too strong for the 325.  Both sound terrific.  I suspect the 325 would produce fatigue more quickly - as a tradeoff for being slightly more present in the high-mids and treble - but if you're rockin' out to Grados, there may be an itch the 325 was made to scratch.  

Alice in Chains' Rooster has great thump from both phones.  The 225 provides something closer to neutral while the 325 is more "present" with a deeper thump and HF that feels more engaging.  The 225 is going to be the safer presentation while the 325 definitely feels more transparent.  They're close but the distinctions between them are noticeable.

On the Rolling Stones' Satisfaction, the 225 provides an arguably "better" presentation.  Here, the 325 just seems too strident.  Elvis Presley's A Little Less Conversation is more favorable.  Here, the 225's slightly more polite presentation may be safer but it easily gets scooped by the 325's "presence" and transparency.  I don't know if it's an improvement in detail or simply a perceived improvement in transparency.  Whatever it is, the 325 wins this battle.

Listening to Rush's Tom Sawyer, I found myself going back and forth again.  The 225 has the safer, more balanced, approach.  The 325 has better bass and sparkle.  It feels more transparent, but it's easily the more fatiguing.  If I were running these cans off an unamped iPod or a computer, the 225 would present the safer choice.

Switching to the M^3 for perspective, I noticed a couple of things.  

Listening to Panic! at the Disco's But It's Better If You Do, I was surprised at how much cleaner, clearer and more present the track was with the 325.  This was with the bass boost at zero.  With the M^3, the 325 dominated.  On the other hand, REO Speedwagon's Roll with the Changes sounded better with the mellower presentation of the 225; on the 325, it still sounded strident.  If I bring the bass boost up to half power, the Goo Goo Dolls' Sympathy repeated the pattern: the sparkling detail of guitar and mandolin riffs sounded more "present" on the 325 but at the risk of seeming occasionally strident.  Frank Sinatra's Nothing but the Best sounded more transparent (and more enjoyable) on the 325 where the 225 seemed too safe and maybe even a little veiled by comparison.  Limp Bizkit's Break Stuff doesn't play so well with the bass up at half power, though the 325 doesn't either.  Still, the 325 was quicker to hit the sweet spot as I backed off the bass boost.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero  
" My experience when I "upgraded" from my SR225i to the SR325is was complete disappointment. Was there more bass? Slightly, but the hot treble did not offset this improvement. As well, the comfort factor really suffered with the much heavier housing. I thought it was a step back.
The SR225i is a sweet spot in the Grado lineup until you jump to the RS1i ."


Although I appreciate what Bill said, I agree with Peter. I would add that the HF-2 is another I would upgrade to as well as the RS1.


I've owned the 225 and the 325is at the same time. I also owned the 325is and the HF-2 at the same time. Just not all three at once. I thought the 325is was just too shrill and piercing to me. IMHO, the 225(i) is the sweet spot on the entire Grado lineup.


Although, if you have the skill, you could do mods like Bill does. :)

I'm probably the opposite - I had the SR80, SR225 and SR325i(and then 325is).

I didn't find the SR225 enough of an improvement on the SR80 to justify the higher price (in the UK, the SR80 was about £99, and the SR225 was about £199). I'd probably say that as far as the plastic bodied Grado go, the sweet spot would either be the SR60i/SR80i or Alessandro MS1.

However, the SR325is were right up my street, and easily the best cans I owned for rock / metal, and also my main 'general' can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baka1969 

Although I appreciate what Bill said, I agree with Peter. I would add that the HF-2 is another I would upgrade to as well as the RS1.

 

I've owned the 225 and the 325is at the same time. I also owned the 325is and the HF-2 at the same time. Just not all three at once. I thought the 325is was just too shrill and piercing to me. IMHO, the 225(i) is the sweet spot on the entire Grado lineup.


Although, if you have the skill, you could do mods like Bill does. :)

I also agree with Peter.  The SR325 does have an issue with shrillness.  It's just that this problem is the result of a tonal imbalance in unmodded, unamped, 325s.  The 325 delivers some pretty sweet sparkle but without an equal amount of bass, you can only turn the volume up so much before things grate.  Properly amped, the 325 has enough bass to even out - and when it does, it's an unsung hero in the Grado lineup.  Without an amp, the SR225 is a safer choice, but with the right amp, the 325 shines.

With respect to mods, I discovered a few interesting things when I opened up the 325.  Take a look at this:

On the back of the driver frame, there is a paper/cloth that covers 10 tiny holes.  The paper/cloth is semi-permeable, to allow some venting of the driver.  It's a form of bass reflex, but because the driver runs on such low wattage, this driver cloth usually needs a little push from an amp to get the kind of airflow these headphones need to match the sparkling highs with decent bass.

Right out of the box, the permeability, as reflected in the degree of translucency, is pretty weak.  

With a little steam, you can soften up the glue that holds the shells together and then pry the cups and shells apart.

Not only is the cloth a little heavy for unamped sound; the aluminum cups have plastic blockage.  In addition to the plastic button on the outside, there's a plastic ring inside, which Grado uses to hold the metal-mesh screen in place without welding.

With a pen you can vent the driver backs.  I've found ball-point pens to be most effective.  They pop what they need to pop, but because of their wedge-like nature, they stop short of damaging the diaphragm.  Before I discovered the benefits of the ball-point, driver venting was a little more perilous.

Venting the driver really brings out the bass.  It allows the driver the kind of airflow it would normally need an amp to achieve.  Grado pops four of these holes in its top drivers.  I pop the full ten because I like the effect.  I know of others who have scaled back in order to tighten up the bass.  If you have a great amp, you don't need to do this, but it sure makes iPod listening more enjoyable.

As you can see, the 325is, like a number of other Grados redesigned in 2009, has four-connector wire, which is basically a double-wiring of each channel.  This is why the better new Grados come with the "garden hose" for a cable.

The ten-hole "vent mod" opens things up in a terrific way.  It vents some of that heavy sparkle.  It also provides bass reflex.  If you're planning to use a high-powered amp, you won't need the venting but for most people, a mod like this can work wonders.

I also like to remove the grill cloth, which I suspect to be different on different models.

Doing so leaves behind "sticks" or "spaghetti" which needs to be removed, either by the point of a knife, tweezers or nimble fingers.

A clean grill produces a cleaner sound.  Whatever protection the grill cloth offers can be duplicated by lightly blowing on the grill periodically to remove dust and/or hair.

The next step is to get rid of the plastic ring and the plastic rear-grill button.

I removed mine by boiling the aluminum shell.  This softened up the glue and made it easy to pry the plastic off, though it still left glue residue.  My next step, then, is to use my soldering iron to heat the glue till it drips off the wire.

My camera has picked up the residual glue that I still need to remove.  It's not as noticeable without the flash and high resolution but it's something I'll remove as occasion permits.  Just removing the plastic ring and plastic button, however, have produced remarkable results - a much cleaner, more euphonic response.

The last of the cheap mods, before installing woodies and recabling, is to reposition the cushion so that the front hangs low while the rear rides the top of the front driver grill.  This allows the pinnae to fit inside the bowl created by the cushions.  This takes pressure off the ears.  It keeps bass from escaping through the back.  It positions the whole headphone squarely against the side of the head.  It provides a version of the jumbo that angles the driver, fits better and maintains a lower profile.  I think the soundstage is better as well - and without losing bass.

I'm in agreement with Bencrest. The SR225 was not worth the price over the SR80 IMO. And actually I preferred the SR80 to the SR225. And preferred the MS1 to the SR80.

The SR325 at least brings something different to the table... though whether you like that change is debatable. But if I had to choose between buying an SR225 and an SR80, I would go for the SR80 without hesitation.

The SR325 rechambered with wood by the way fixes all problems with the can. The problem with shrillness disappears completely.

I also prefer the HF2 to the SR225 or the SR325. However the HF2 is a totally different beast altogether.... my favorite stock Grado actually. But I'm the kind of guy who likes dark, creamy sound. I actually don't like Grados in general so I'm not really the person to talk to regarding Grados. I went to great lengths to "fix" my SR80 so that it would sound acceptable to my tastes.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bencrest 

I'm probably the opposite - I had the SR80, SR225 and SR325i(and then 325is).

 

I didn't find the SR225 enough of an improvement on the SR80 to justify the higher price (in the UK, the SR80 was about £99, and the SR225 was about £199). I'd probably say that as far as the plastic bodied Grado go, the sweet spot would either be the SR60i/SR80i or Alessandro MS1.

 

However, the SR325is were right up my street, and easily the best cans I owned for rock / metal, and also my main 'general' can.

Originally Posted by Mochan 

I'm in agreement with Bencrest. The SR225 was not worth the price over the SR80 IMO. And actually I preferred the SR80 to the SR225. And preferred the MS1 to the SR80.

 

The SR325 at least brings something different to the table... though whether you like that change is debatable. But if I had to choose between buying an SR225 and an SR80, I would go for the SR80 without hesitation.

 

The SR325 rechambered with wood by the way fixes all problems with the can. The problem with shrillness disappears completely.

 

I also prefer the HF2 to the SR225 or the SR325. However the HF2 is a totally different beast altogether.... my favorite stock Grado actually. But I'm the kind of guy who likes dark, creamy sound. I actually don't like Grados in general so I'm not really the person to talk to regarding Grados. I went to great lengths to "fix" my SR80 so that it would sound acceptable to my tastes.

Interesting post, Mochan.  I love it when somebody says, "This one does it for me," regardless of the can's supposed place in the pricing tier.  The SR80 was my original Grado, before I jumped to the 325.  I had to come back to the 60 and only later try out the 225 - which I liked a lot.  I can see why the 225 gets the praise it gets.  I can also see why the 325 gets viewed as inferior to the 225, given its less mellow presentation.  Without an amp or a mod, it's a can that leaves folks scratching their heads and saying, "I paid $100 more for this?"  But as every dog has its day, every headphone has an optimal setup.  In my humble opinion, the 325 is not just a better headphone than the 225; it's worth more than $100 difference in price - but to get the most out of it, I had to pop the hood.  With the plastic ring and button removed from the rear grill, this can sounds a lot more like the HF2.  I think you're totally on the mark when you say that woodying this can fixes its issues, though I've yet to do that with the one I've got.  The HF2 uses a front shoe of mahogany to even up the tonal balance.  Bring up the bass and all that sparkle has a context in which to shine.  

As nicely balanced as the 225 may be, its strength is also its weakness.  Less sparkle allows it to enjoy enjoy more balance, given its limited bass.  When people audition this can, they are impressed with that balance.  There's a good match between its highs and lows.  But when I stack its HF against that of the 325, the 325 has a noticeably clearer presentation.  What hurts the 325 is the lack of balance.  Right out of the box, it doesn't present enough bass to balance out the overall tone - which is why it leaves so many people bleeding from the ears.  My initial reaction to it was also disappointment, though I was coming from 80s which were already burned in.  I didn't come to love the 325 until I'd skipped up to the RS1.  By that time, something - whether you call it burn in or break in - had let the bass out enough to change my assessment of it.  Even then, I didn't really hear this lion roar until I got my M^3, which forced so much bass out of it, I thought it stacked up well against the GS1000.  With a pad switch, the GS1000 was one rockin' can unamped, but with my M^3, I could dial up enough bass to make my $300 325s take on the $1,000 GS1k - and hold its own.

Mochan, your woodied mod is awesome.  Once you've got the bass, the "hot treble" is more of an asset than a liability.

As for the MS1, I'm modding one right now and I can't tell you how impressed I am with this $100 headphone.  For the noob who's looking for a good deal at the entry level, the MS1 packs one amazing wallop.  I've never owned a 125, so I'm not sure if I'm just reacting to its virtues - at a great price - but I can't think of $100 better spent, at least on headphones.  

Thanks, the wood on the SR80 was made by a friend of mine, bless his soul. It really gave the cans a touch of class. I affectionately call those the "GS8000" although right now it's the "GS800" since I removed the distancers again.

I've always been the type of person to not go for balanced sound. I'm a basshead at heart but other than that I tend to go for extremes in sound in either direction. That said for the SR80 my target was really something that sounded similar in style to the HF2. I do agree with you... once you fix the bass, the hot treble actually becomes an asset. The extremes of the impact and power of the bass on the modded SR80 gave it that dark sound, and allowed a lot of leeway for treble.  I usually like the MS1 better than the SR80, but with the modding I was able to appreciate the SR80's hot treble.

I agree with you on the MS1 -- those are just an incredible bang for buck set of headphones. I've always said that I prefer the MS1 to *all* the Prestige series Grados, that goes all the way from the SR60 up to the SR325.  When stock, for sure, I prefer the MS1 all the way. And to be honest, I actually prefer the MS1 to the MS2. I guess I'm just not a metal Grado person.  There are times when I prefer the sound of the MS1 to the MS Pro... but usually the MS Pro's unbelievable sense of refinement wins out.  

I've always wondered if it's possible to mod a lower end Grado to achieve the same sense of refinement the MS Pro has. I recall asking this in your Mod thread. Still going to check out silver cables and see if they are able to bring the lower end Grados a little closer to the MS Pro.

Make your own silver cables.  For $50 to $60 (plus the cost of a connector), you could make some very nice cables - and I found them to enhance the detail and the bass.  I'm not sure how something with only 7% more conductivity than the best copper does that, but I'm a believer now - not in commercial $500 cables but in silver.

Thanks, man, I appreciate the kind word.  I agree with you.  The 325 has more potential.  With the right moves, it'll best the 225.  The difference in clarity and thump is substantial.  But if we're talking right out of the box, the 225 bests it because the 225 is already what's it's supposed to be - unamped and untweaked.

Bilavideo, you need to apply for a professorship and come lecture at my university!

I personally like the 325is more than any other Grado.  It just seems even more lively than the other models, and I like that.  Plus the looks, to my eyes anyways, are just perfect.