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the psychology of the musician as listener - Page 4

post #46 of 64

Quote Mike 1127 "By the way, it's Beethoven who wrote the Moonlight Sonata"

 

;0 Thanks, was listening to Bach while writing the post...

 


Edited by Nost - 10/2/10 at 12:46am
post #47 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1127 View Post

I think Beethoven did miss his hearing because there's a physical pleasure to sound that cannot be replaced by the imagination.



He really did miss it. At old age he could no longer play the piano and couldn't conduct properly either. Sad.

post #48 of 64

It's odd that you are snickering at other people's supposed misunderstanding of psychology, but when presented with recent research, you have no interest.

 

There was no presentation of recent research.  On your part, yes, there was an off hand comment.  It's funny but nowhere did I write that I don't have an interest as what you wrote of had nothing to do with what I commented on and there was no "supposed misunderstanding of psychology" as it was a flat out misuse of psychology.  The Sound Science forum is the least attended to forum and I'm sure it's for reasons such as your above.  I don't snicker at supposed misunderstanding, although I do outright laugh as you're trying real hard to drag my comment into a realm where it doesn't belong.  Last time, everything is not penis envy and bringing up the male appendage in the manner it was brought up is a trite misuse of the understanding of psychology.  Maybe the "snickering" would stop if you brought up poignant research with context to modern day humanity and not a disjointed offhand comment regarding human behavior from twenty thousand years ago; lacking context of humanity's evolution.

 

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -Einstein

 

FWIW, quite often, in human's efforts to understand their surroundings, they have a necessary tendency to overly simplify and their intellectual efforts to understand their social environment break down as their thinking loses context with reality.  Why does this happen?  Because they lose the construct benefit of 3-D thinking as their thinking goes planar in their need to overly simplify in order to comprehend or communicate.  The point, if you're going talk about penis envy, one should maintain context of it's genesis as opposed to trying to apply it evenly across the board.  And if one can't maintain context, don't use the term because doing so makes the action trite, which was the case here.  Hence, on my part, yes, the good laugh.

 

Folks do need to mature past Psych 101.  Even Freud understood this penis thing was out of hand, hence why he commented: "Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar."  In their sicko need to take the fun and enjoyment out of everything, folks misuse of the term penis envy, makes it so nobody can enjoy anything.  Not even a cigar or a hot dog because everything to them, due to their lack of understanding (not having gone past Psych 101), has become a penis; arrested development.  Try remembering one simple point, this is an audio forum where folks come to share their love of audio gear, not their love of penis; it's a hobby.  And yes, if someone is going to continue trying to connect audio gear to penis envy, yes, I'm going continue having a good laugh at their expense and yes, deride their efforts to take the fun out of the hobby.  It's a hobby, a form of entertainment as some folks need to grow up and stop trying to bleed the fun out everything with their sophomoric penis envy comments.

 


Edited by beeman458 - 10/2/10 at 2:19am
post #49 of 64
Thread Starter 

 

Underneath it, you don't seem to be laughing. These are some pretty strong statements:

Quote:
...In their sicko need to take the fun and enjoyment out of everything, folks misuse of the term penis envy, makes it so nobody can enjoy anything.  Not even a cigar...
 
...It's a hobby, a form of entertainment, try not bleeding the fun out of it....

 


To be clear, I am referring to a simpler and more general idea that men sometimes size each other up in relation to establishing a hierarchy. My signature says everything should be made as simple as possible. This is pretty darn simple.

 

What do you see when you look at male mammals in nature? Hierarchies of dominance. Everywhere.

 

Pretty basic idea.

 

People are 99% animal. So even if we disguise it with socialization, something similar is bound to be happening.

 

There is no need to list all the ways men compare each other. The idea is much broader and simpler. It could be penises, it could be a hundred other things that men are comparing.

 

Another really basic idea: if you are a male animal, and thinking about picking a fight, check out your opponent's size and strength first. If he probably has you beat from the start, then just don't fight with him. Let him win. Saves your energy and bloodshed.

 

Now, evidence... has any study shown that men have a potential to size each other up, the same way animals would before fighting? Yes, a recent study has.

 

post #50 of 64

Underneath it, you don't seem to be laughing. These are some pretty strong statements:

 

They're not strong statements.

 

To be clear, I am referring to a simpler and more general idea that men sometimes size each other up in relation to establishing a hierarchy. My signature says everything should be made as simple as possible. This is pretty darn simple.

 

And yes, "sometimes" they do, and yes, agreed, that's normal.  And as to simplification, yes, there's overly simplifying an idea to the point, where due to a lack of context, context breaks down along with the validity of the idea.

 

What do you see when you look at male mammals in nature? Hierarchies of dominance. Everywhere.

 

Nope.  I just see a bunch of animals hanging out and nothing more as I don't psych everything out as there's no need to comment on the obvious and also, doing so takes the fun out of life.  You write as if this is all new information when in fact, it's very old and well disseminated information.  You've heard the term "Boring!" I'm sure?  And yes, with all due respect, if it's all new to you, then it won't be boring.

 

Pretty basic idea.

 

Actually, it's so basic, it's not even worth discussion, unless in an elementary 101 class where nobody has "any" prior knowledge.  There's a reason for 100 series classes.

 

People are 99% animal. So even if we disguise it with socialization, something similar is bound to be happening.

 

Are they.  I can see you've yet to come out of Psych 101.  There's no disguising it with socialization as that's what's called "Pop Psychology."  Humans have been socializing beyond that of our animal friends for millions of years, not days, weeks, months or years.  Playing the animal card is both beginning psych conversation and has nothing to do with penis envy nor it's connection to audio gear.  If you want to see yourself in the light of being an animal, have at it.  If you want to drain the fun out of enjoying audio gear, like some others here are want to do, have at it.  Everything isn't tied into a penis and just because somebody writes as much doesn't make it so.  It's also offensive to read this type of tripe in a forum of this kind.

 

Now, evidence... has any study shown that men have a potential to size each other up, the same way animals would before fighting? Yes, a recent study has.

 

A recent study?  Forgive me but your above comment is one reason why I laugh.  It's hard not to laugh when it's written that somebody was more then likely paid to sum up what everybody already knew.  It's as if this is some sort of startling revelation when this information has been continually known about for tens of thousands of years.  The originality of a study of this kind is like writing that folks know intuitively to stay out of the way of a city bus and doing so is some sort of genetic survival instinct that harkens back millions of years ago.  With all due respect, this study you're commenting on isn't a news flash.  Even today, folks from the poorest, least educated backgrounds can talk knowledgeably about the act of posturing; punking somebody out.  A suggestion, go back through your military history over the last sixty-five hundred years or more and you'll see that humanity well understood the concept of posturing.  People are not as dumb or ignorant as others like to think they are.  Also, please go back through known paleo-history.  In doing so you'll see that humanity was on to this point tens of thousands of years ago and not just learning about it due to the release of a recent study.  Please, go back through your history and you'll be able to easily see and understand how man quickly overcame this size/strength advantage and learned how to exploit weaknesses in "stronger" opponents.  Stating the obvious, it's called skill building, an act which separates us from our animal friends.  And no, one can't emotionally function on a healthy level going into a room with other guys, getting all weird in the process, just because there are other dudes in the room who can kick their butt.  If they're doing that, they've yet to grow up.

 

My fault for getting sucked up in the triteness of the penis comment as I can see the maturity of thought isn't there and that's why the comment was made in the first place.

 

My apologies.


Edited by beeman458 - 10/2/10 at 7:14am
post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1127 View Post

 

To be clear, I am referring to a simpler and more general idea that men sometimes size each other up in relation to establishing a hierarchy.

 


There is an irony that beeman458 doesn't get this smily_headphones1.gif

 

I don't bother with postings by beeman458 myself, I just ignore them now.

post #52 of 64

There is an irony that beeman458 doesn't get this smily_headphones1.gif

 

And what's even more ironic is most males stop doing this after they get out of public education, a point which you have missed.  Those who don't abate this behavior are considered to be suffering from arrested development.  Just like those who equate audio gear with penis envy.

 


Edited by beeman458 - 10/2/10 at 8:24am
post #53 of 64

Before Aleister Crowley in the Golden Dawn there was a focus on sex and the order collapsed when he entered and formed A.'.A.'. (Angel & the Abyss), one ov one means nothing.. it's redundant in my mind just like the grade of Probationer, after being a Student of the matter at hand (these terms I do know well, so that's how I choose to express myself), but I might add that I'm more into the Jungian archetypes and a more complex breakdown of ones feelings. I'm not a number...

 

Empathy is the key to the psychology of the musician, not been critical to the equiment when the music first starts.. it's rather just a instrument to be (mis)used.

post #54 of 64

Sure we are.  That's why Karaoke is such a nightmare.

post #55 of 64

but audio quality is just a small thing to listen...look:

groove on 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5imPpWkZo8

kinky feelings - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rTvG2jVteA

majestic piece for 6 strings only- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YcrGUkdD1I&p=72F4C8D378E01E44&playnext=1&index=49 or

for 3? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVYrJhbxccU&feature=related

surprise - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M3k4kFT_S8 2xslower than usually played and the composition makes sense!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xotoDy5806Y - the sound quality is awful but the song is nice.

 

i mean there is much more to listen to than what the headphones sound like.

post #56 of 64

Yeah, music is (e)motion..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FFdmrZqS-8

post #57 of 64

One of my favorites for emotion; great running song too but you better be able to hold better than an eight minute pace to make it work.

 

Sammy Hagar: "Mas Tequila."


Edited by beeman458 - 10/5/10 at 7:29pm
post #58 of 64

Thread derail! Seriously, why are we talking about human psychology? This is about audio perception and enjoyment.

post #59 of 64

Not sure but isn't perception and enjoyment, part of the whole psychology thingy?

 

???

post #60 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by tasteful View Post

Thread derail! Seriously, why are we talking about human psychology? This is about audio perception and enjoyment.



Right... So you are saying hearing does not fall under psychology?

 

You should email publishers of college and university text books and inform them of their grave error so that they may correct it.

 

If hearing does not exist in the mind, how then are you consciously aware of it?

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