Ultimate Ears In-Ear Reference Monitors (Capitol Studios Collaboration): Announcement and First... - Page 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict 

I was firmly on the JH13Pro bandwagon myself - see my huge review:  Review: Three Flagship Custom IEM - Westone ES3X vs Jerry Harvey JH13Pro vs Ultimate Ears UE11Pro.  I do prefer the JH13Pro over my LCD-2, as their treble has a little more sparkle and they don't seem as dark or veiled (not that the LCD-2 are veiled per se, but they might be called that in comparison).  

 

The ES5 are slightly brighter than the JH13Pro and slightly more forward (although less than ES3X), and they seem to have better balanced bass and bass detail vs the JH13Pro which I'm now leaning towards being slightly too much.  So, I'd say the bass quality of the ES5 is better than the JH13Pro, and the quantity is not lacking at all. The sense of openness/spaciousness and transparency in the ES5 is wonderful, mids are vibrant and rich, and highs are crisp and detailed without grain. The only gripe about the ES5 is that they are ruthless with poorly mastered material, and stunning with well recorded material. 

 

Again, this is the UE RM thread, so I don't want to hi-jack it any more than this.  I'll post my ES5 review in the Flagship IEM thread when I am ready.

Thanks, I did read your review a few times actually. Different occaisions when the IEM buy lust hit hard.

to anyone:

Back to the RM

I emailed JH audio to see if they will match the -32db of the RM and Jerry himself said he had a hard time believing that measurement, but I could ask for maximum isolation when placing an order.... didn't offer a number as to what "maximum isolation" mean though.

I have read that the parts these IEM companies use are OEM and not actually proprietary. That being said, to what degree do the actual drivers/balanced armatures change in quality? Anyone have a clue?

More info on this topic would help evaluating the impact 6 drivers would have over 3 in technical objective terms, other than sensitivity and ability to move air.

If the 3 BA are of pinnacle quality in the RM and the 6 in the JH 13 are of lesser quality, it would change how I view the products a bit.

Right now it is +6 db isolation and 3 drivers in the RM vs.  6 drivers and -6 db isolation in the JH 13 with only 100$ separating the two. Both are supposed to be neutral and revealing, so perceiving value is particularly hard to me at this point.

How much of my hard earned cash is going to the Capitol Records logo? How much of my cash is going to believing more BA = better sound?

First, I would like to know what getting extra isolation from JH entails.  Thicker shells?  Larger housings?

Second, many people know exactly what drivers are in what iem so they would be better to answer but I seriously doubt JH would use lesser drivers than UE.  This whole Capitol records UERM thing has to be largely an exercise in tuning IMO.  

Hey! Big things come in small black Korean packages. 
 

EDIT: Oops. I think you were referring to my Clip. Still. Nothin' wrong with plugging $1000 dollars worth of ear gear into a $50 player. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogears 

Yep! Better put your money on something you can bring around and plug on your tiny mp3 player
 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolov91 

I have read that the parts these IEM companies use are OEM and not actually proprietary. That being said, to what degree do the actual drivers/balanced armatures change in quality? Anyone have a clue?

  

If the 3 BA are of pinnacle quality in the RM and the 6 in the JH 13 are of lesser quality, it would change how I view the products a bit.

 

They're all buying their armatures from the same company, Knowles. By now, they all have arrangements with Knowles to get slightly tweaked armatures, that's your "proprietary" armature...

You made up the idea that the armatures in one of these customs are "better" than another.

Balanced armatures are an old technology that hasn't really progressed. No matter which custom you buy, you'll be dramatically overpaying for what you get. Look at the Westone ES3X. You pay $400 more for exactly the same drivers and crossovers as the UM3X.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunlun 

 

They're all buying their armatures from the same company, Knowles. By now, they all have arrangements with Knowles to get slightly tweaked armatures, that's your "proprietary" armature...

 

You made up the idea that the armatures in one of these customs are "better" than another.

 

Balanced armatures are an old technology that hasn't really progressed. No matter which custom you buy, you'll be dramatically overpaying for what you get. Look at the Westone ES3X. You pay $400 more for exactly the same drivers and crossovers as the UM3X.

Didn't make it up as you put it, what I made up was an example of how hard it is to make a value judgement based on the little info we (or maybe just I) have.

I do thank you for the info though. I didn't know it was all from the same company. That makes choosing a bit easier for me now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus 

First, I would like to know what getting extra isolation from JH entails.  Thicker shells?  Larger housings?

 

Second, many people know exactly what drivers are in what iem so they would be better to answer but I seriously doubt JH would use lesser drivers than UE.  This whole Capitol records UERM thing has to be largely an exercise in tuning IMO.  

He said they would be thicker/denser.

If if it is tuning, and the JH 13 are reportedly "neutral" then it is kind of an odd marketing ploy for UE.

I guess having a studio saying they are neutral is better than head-fiers though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunlun:

 

 

Balanced armatures are an old technology that hasn't really progressed. No matter which custom you buy, you'll be dramatically overpaying for what you get. Look at the Westone ES3X. You pay $400 more for exactly the same drivers and crossovers as the UM3X.

You are paying for service too. I had my IEMs made three times. That is manual labour by a talented technician. (And with Westone soft tips, that meant remaking the entire shell each time. I also got six trips across the Pacific for free so I think that my value was pretty good. Oh and they sound good...)
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooperpwc 

Quote:

You are paying for service too. I had my IEMs made three times. That is manual labour by a talented technician. (And with Westone soft tips, that meant remaking the entire shell each time. I also got six trips across the Pacific for free so I think that my value was pretty good. Oh and they sound good...)
 

Wasn't a critique of the customer service :P

Profit margins, once the company has settled, must be immense...

Do you ever have bad PR situations with people making boat loads of money? Didn't think so. Undoubtedly it is because these companies can afford full medical coverage of their employees, so the employees are certainly on all kinds of uppers to make dealing with whining audiophiles more bearable :P. I would hate to deal with 40+ year old toddlers who demand perfection, wouldn't you?

Jokes aside, I would demand perfection for the price they charge too. Did they charge you for the 3rd refitting? That must have been horrible to wait that long... truly. New toy syndrome restarting 3 times over the same toy... ouch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolov91 

 

Jokes aside, I would demand perfection for the price they charge too. Did they charge you for the 3rd refitting? That must have been horrible to wait that long... truly. New toy syndrome restarting 3 times over the same toy... ouch.

Nope. Westone has a 90 day fit guarantee. (JH Audio has 30 days but they seem to be flexible about exceeding it. However, with JH Audio, you pay return shipping. Not sure about UE.)

Waitig was excruciating. But the fault was with my audiologist, not Westone. My new impressions solved the problems.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooperpwc 

Quote:

Nope. Westone has a 90 day fit guarantee. (JH Audio has 30 days but they seem to be flexible about exceeding it. However, with JH Audio, you pay return shipping. Not sure about UE.)

 

Waitig was excruciating. But the fault was with my audiologist, not Westone. My new impressions solved the problems.
 

From what I understand JH will cover a maximum of two re-fittings.

One thing I find really annoying about Westone is how they don't seem to have pricing info anywhere.... and not much write up about their products either...

Any advice on which impression method works best?

someone advised that asking your audiologist for Extra snug helped them their second time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolov91 

From what I understand JH will cover a maximum of two re-fittings.

 

One thing I find really annoying about Westone is how they don't seem to have pricing info anywhere.... and not much write up about their products either...

 

Any advice on which impression method works best?

 

someone advised that asking your audiologist for Extra snug helped them their second time.

whered you hear that jh only does 2 re fittings? they'll do as many as you need for the product to fit right, i know i did 3, and there are people who ive read about that have done more than 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunlun 

 

"No matter which custom you buy, you'll be dramatically overpaying for what you get. Look at the Westone ES3X. You pay $400 more for exactly the same drivers and crossovers as the UM3X."

I do have to say that for the extra money I get much better isolation, noticeably improved transparency and frequency response balance, and better comfort.

very very nice