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Headphones with a subwoofer - Page 3

post #31 of 43
11/28/03 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Snake
!



Yeah, but with a sub it's the chest and body feeling the pressure that makes it so amazing. No matter the 'phone you just can't get that. Having your chest feel things as they happen - the same way as 'live' - with the immersion experience and frequency response of a headphone is just...awesome. Nothing, in my opinion, comes close. A great stereo system built around speakers has to deal with room acoustics and environmental factors, which 'phones eliminate, making the experience more 'real'. Add what the ears hear, to what the mind rebuilds (the soundstage), to what the body senses and feels (the sub pressurizing and the skin's responses to that)...you are in heaven.

At least that's what many who experienced it also tell me.
All the vibrations you feel in your body goes trough the same vehicle, the bones, the transmission through the bones is the same though the bones of your chest or the bones of your head, well I do feel it that way, when I was hearing bass heavy music with headphones, I feel the same sensation that I got in my stomach during a subwoofer audition, I can't explain exactly why, but I feel it in my stomach and chest, maybe is a conditioned reflex, who knows....but is very similar....believe me, I do not miss anything other than the higher volume and a different presentation of course, more spatial, on the rest of the spectrum...
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post #32 of 43
11/28/03 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Sovkiller
Sorry, of course I know you can get this feeling, but not all the time, BTW, how many times you need to go that low during playing? And sometimes this feeling is more as a result of the volume you are playing, that of the note itself, this same note played at a moderate volume will be felt in a different way, you do not play the headphones at the db level you get in a club,
You don't play as loud as a club, true, but the low B is around 31 hz. the low E around 50 hz. Depending on musical style, bassists will hit low E often.

Have you ever stood near an upright (unamped obviously) bass while a player was going to town? You can feel those notes in your chest, just like drums. I'm talking unamped natural thumpage here.

If a sub is applied properly in a home stereo, it won't call attention to itself. I don't see how this would be any different when listening with headphones. You can have low frequency sound pressure without over emphasizing it, imho.

I personally don't put much stock in the "must reproduce live music as much as possible" school of thought; I just know I can tell the difference between bass out of headphones and bass my bones can feel - and I'm not talking huge volume differences here. There is a reason there is a niche market for tactile transducers: the body can feel bass with organs other than the ears.

One other quick point: when listing to music at moderate or low volume, the low bass tones are usually the first to go. This is true with speakers or headphones. You need a certain level of volume just to properly hear a bass guitar or kick drum. (Not much, I'm talking 70-75 db or so)
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post #33 of 43
11/28/03 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by ph0rk
Have you ever stood near an upright (unamped obviously) bass while a player was going to town? You can feel those notes in your chest, just like drums. I'm talking unamped natural thumpage here.

Yes I know what you are talking about, but I feel them almost the same way on headphones also, I can't expalin how or why, but I do...

If a sub is applied properly in a home stereo, it won't call attention to itself. I don't see how this would be any different when listening with headphones. You can have low frequency sound pressure without over emphasizing it, imho.

Absolutelly true, that is the way mine is set, you barely notice it, it is just a complement to the rest of the system, nothing isolated or added....but with headphones there is phase or any other related problem I can't tell you for sure, that cause you to notice that there is an external artificial sound added, and I feel it that way with headphones, and not with speakers...OTOH you can get the same effect with the bassboost on the PPA, without noticing it, and it sounds better IMO

I personally don't put much stock in the "must reproduce live music as much as possible" school of thought; I just know I can tell the difference between bass out of headphones and bass my bones can feel - and I'm not talking huge volume differences here. There is a reason there is a niche market for tactile transducers: the body can feel bass with organs other than the ears.

If the headphones are reproducing 20Hz or low (and they can) you can't hear it, you feel it, in your head bones, or in any other place or bones, but the ear drum....

One other quick point: when listing to music at moderate or low volume, the low bass tones are usually the first to go. This is true with speakers or headphones. You need a certain level of volume just to properly hear a bass guitar or kick drum. (Not much, I'm talking 70-75 db or so)

This was why the loudness control was created on the amps, and this was why, I went after the bassboost on the PPA, to get what I was missing before.... I do not agree that missing this part of the sound, is being an audiophile, IMO is absurd and silly.....we need that part....

There is thread around debating this theme...something called: "audiophile or masochist" or somethign like that....
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post #34 of 43
11/28/03 at 8:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Snake
!

Yeah, but with a sub it's the chest and body feeling the pressure that makes it so amazing. No matter the 'phone you just can't get that. Having your chest feel things as they happen - the same way as 'live' - with the immersion experience and frequency response of a headphone is just...awesome. Nothing, in my opinion, comes close.
Well explained snake, this is the exact effect or experience I feel is missing when I am using headphones.

Quote:
This was why the loudness control was created on the amps, and this was why, I went after the bassboost on the PPA, to get what I was missing before.... I do not agree that missing this part of the sound, is being an audiophile, IMO is absurd and silly.....we need that part....
I think I get your rationale Sov, but I personally dont prefer to use the loudness &/or bass controls. I think a well set-up system (Im referring to speaker systems) would still give out great bass (some felt & some heard) without the tinkering of the loudness setting.
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post #35 of 43
11/28/03 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by tortie
Well explained snake, this is the exact effect or experience I feel is missing when I am using headphones.

Well use the CD3000 and the PPA with the C7 0.1uF and R7 33K and you will feel that same impact


I think I get your rationale Sov, but I personally dont prefer to use the loudness &/or bass controls. I think a well set-up system (Im referring to speaker systems) would still give out great bass (some felt & some heard) without the tinkering of the loudness setting.

The loudness controls are there just to be used when the volume is extremelly low, and on recordings that really need it, and is needed, as all the speakers setups need a minimum power or volume to sound right from this point on is a pleasure, from this point down, is masochism without a loudness setting, at a very low volumes the spectrum suffers, and need to be "corrected" more or less that way....
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post #36 of 43
11/28/03 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally posted by sacd lover
I have an audiophile acquaintance who uses his subwoofer with AKG K1000's; he swears by it.
That's exactly how I do all of my music listening, and the effect is wonderful. The sound of the K1000 is glorious, and the deep deep base is very satisfying. As for disturbing wife, and others. She objected to the loud sound of full range speakers, but readily tolerates the occasional woof of the sufwoofer.
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post #37 of 43
11/28/03 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally posted by mikeg
That's exactly how I do all of my music listening, and the effect is wonderful. The sound of the K1000 is glorious, and the deep deep base is very satisfying.
Yeah. The only problem, depending upon your cans, is getting a sub with the output level you need but also with the speed you need to keep up with the 'phones transients. With Stax's this is a tough problem, but Oh, the sacrifices we have to make!

Quote:
As for disturbing wife, and others. She objected to the loud sound of full range speakers, but readily tolerates the occasional woof of the sufwoofer.
Is this in a private home or an apartment? I've never done it at home, afraid of seriously bothering others, but I've wanted to for years. I am on the concrete slab here, and it works great for subs on the floor (little energy absorption, it seems) but I'm afraid of rattling others out of house and home!! (well, worse than I do now, anyway )
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post #38 of 43
11/28/03 at 11:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Yeah. The only problem, depending upon your cans, is getting a sub with the output level you need but also with the speed you need to keep up with the 'phones transients. With Stax's this is a tough problem, but Oh, the sacrifices we have to make!


Is this in a private home or an apartment? I've never done it at home, afraid of seriously bothering others, but I've wanted to for years. I am on the concrete slab here, and it works great for subs on the floor (little energy absorption, it seems) but I'm afraid of rattling others out of house and home!! (well, worse than I do now, anyway )
Private home containing only wife and me. 12 inch powered Klipsch subwoofer on carpet, over a concrete slab. Listen mostly to classical, thus subwoofer contribution usually fairly subtle, but still there. With K1000, subwoofer, SACDs, and closed eyes, it's easy to imagine being at a terrific concert hall, sitting about 10 rows back.
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post #39 of 43
11/28/03 at 11:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by mikeg
Private home containing only wife and me. 12 inch powered Klipsch subwoofer on carpet, over a concrete slab. Listen mostly to classical, thus subwoofer contribution usually fairly subtle, but still there. With K1000, subwoofer, SACDs, and closed eyes, it's easy to imagine being at a terrific concert hall, sitting about 10 rows back.
You are missing a couple of Jack Daniels to be in the right mood....and a cat on your lap
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post #40 of 43
11/28/03 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Sovkiller
You are missing a couple of Jack Daniels to be in the right mood....and a cat on your lap
The 'Zha Zha Gabor meets Johnny Carson' syndrome??
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post #41 of 43
11/29/03 at 12:02am
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post #42 of 43
11/29/03 at 12:21am
Quote:
Originally posted by Sovkiller
You are missing a couple of Jack Daniels to be in the right mood....and a cat on your lap
With the open K1000, the wife's on the lap, and the cat's on the floor.
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post #43 of 43
12/17/03 at 4:08am
Thread Starter 

UPDATE

Auras have arrrived! Check this thread

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=54342
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