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Most overrated headphones? - Page 70

post #1036 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukem5 View Post


What about when they make an orpheus clone/ better sounding/more euphonic version of the orpheus? It's not like the orpheus is an incredible work of art that can never be recreated.

Sennheiser has hinted at making a new version of the orpheus.

Really?!

That sounds interesting for sure - as long as it doesn't cost what the original Orpheus cost anyway (which it probably will/would).

Maybe they may do a new baby Orpheus for us mere mortals - just so we can get a taste of what audiophile gods dine on?
post #1037 of 1099
Amount of money sennheiser got from selling all of the Orpheus's: around 5,100,000... The Orpheus is probably the most marked up headphones in history compared to production cost. The materials used are probably on par with modern flagships (haven't held one... So I don't know.) and the most expensive thing about it would be to have engineers working on it for a few years... What would the r&d be, maybe 400,000$? Maybe less or more? Work of art is right... That's most of what you pay for.
post #1038 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisCHORDDubstep View Post

Amount of money sennheiser got from selling all of the Orpheus's: around 5,100,000... The Orpheus is probably the most marked up headphones in history compared to production cost. The materials used are probably on par with modern flagships (haven't held one... So I don't know.) and the most expensive thing about it would be to have engineers working on it for a few years... What would the r&d be, maybe 400,000$? Maybe less or more? Work of art is right... That's most of what you pay for.

 

You have any numbers to back that up or did you confuse your flank with a bibliography again? 

post #1039 of 1099
Hmm... Well, I did say "probably" and "maybe less or more"... And looking realistically, do you seriously think they'd spend more money than that? I can see at max 600,000$ for r&d... And unless they slapped diamonds and gold on it, I doubt its materials are more expensive than other flagships. All speculation, since sennheiser is a private company and keeps all earnings etc to themselves. And 17,000$ X 300 = 5,100,000$ if you didn't want to do any math.
post #1040 of 1099

The headphone by itself was $6,500. The $16,000 was with the HEV90.

post #1041 of 1099
I thought the amp was included?
post #1042 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisCHORDDubstep View Post

Hmm... Well, I did say "probably" and "maybe less or more"... And looking realistically, do you seriously think they'd spend more money than that? I can see at max 600,000$ for r&d... And unless they slapped diamonds and gold on it, I doubt its materials are more expensive than other flagships. All speculation, since sennheiser is a private company and keeps all earnings etc to themselves. And 17,000$ X 300 = 5,100,000$ if you didn't want to do any math.

 

It is hard to say, true. And I think you were right that they're largely an "exhibit", but that's not a bad thing, is it? 

 

PartTimeAudiophile said in his review of the Abyss that headphones are the only industry where proofs of concept land on the market. When Chevy or Volkswagen have some engineering marvel to show off, it just stays in a display somewhere, but with headphones (probably since they cost less than cars) people go "I WANT TO BUY THAT NOW." Things like the Orpheus, the Abyss, the Muramasa, Stax and JH Roxanne are the kinds of products that have no real business being products, and yet they are.

 

I have no idea the kind of R&D that went into the Orpheus. I would wager the VAST majority of the resources went into the included amplifier, because that thing is ridiculous. And Sennheiser does have a track record of being... a little shady with their products (555/595 anyone?), so yeah.

 

Raw materials are never expensive, it's more in the engineering and production. Remember even if it's just made out of aluminum and cheap plastic there still has to be a manufacturing process and people working on it and they all need paid, the building needs covered, taxes, etc.

 

That's a lot of words to say "okay you got a point there" but whatever, LOL. 

post #1043 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisCHORDDubstep View Post

I thought the amp was included?

 

Yes. You're effectively paying $6,500 for the HE90 $9,500 for the HEV90.

post #1044 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishcabible View Post
 

 

Yes. You're effectively paying $6,500 for the HE90 $9,500 for the HEV90.

 

Yeah but remember you can't buy them separately so this distinction is a little wonky, haha. The "Orpheus" means the whole unit. 

 

ALTHOUGH, that makes it kinda interesting because it means, if you break it down, the Final Audio Design Muramasa VIII is the most expensive headphone of all, since its $8,000 price tag was for the speakers alone. 

post #1045 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

 

Yeah but remember you can't buy them separately so this distinction is a little wonky, haha. The "Orpheus" means the whole unit. 

 

ALTHOUGH, that makes it kinda interesting because it means, if you break it down, the Final Audio Design Muramasa VIII is the most expensive headphone of all, since its $8,000 price tag was for the speakers alone. 

 

Actually I guess I'm wrong, according to: http://www.stereophile.com/content/sennheiser-orpheus-he-90-headphones-specifications the combo was $12,900 and you could buy another HE90 if you were so inclined.

post #1046 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishcabible View Post
 

 

Actually I guess I'm wrong, according to: http://www.stereophile.com/content/sennheiser-orpheus-he-90-headphones-specifications the combo was $12,900 and you could buy another HE90 if you were so inclined.

 

I dunno man I saw prices all over the map when I looked it up. 

 

I will say, though, if the frequency range was accurate, that is ABSURD. 7-100,000Hz is crazy. That's well outside human hearing, but it might explain the cost. 

post #1047 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

I dunno man I saw prices all over the map when I looked it up. 

I will say, though, if the frequency range was accurate, that is ABSURD. 7-100,000Hz is crazy. That's well outside human hearing, but it might explain the cost. 
a lot of sony's go that high, but I think its a little more directed at consumers who are told headphones with higher responses have better treble etc... They probably try and come up with a way to make the response go ridiculously high and low. I mean, they have 60$ ear buds they say go down to 1 hz... O.o
post #1048 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

The thing is, you're just sort of... saying it. You have no evidence or basis to make those claims other than "well I just figure..."

It renders everything you say after that completely moot. You assert with confidence that "some 10yo Chinese boy" could do it, but don't have any reason behind it. Just your own incredulity. How do you know it's not the kind of thing that took this man 50 years of daily work to perfect? How do you know it's not some incredibly finicky work that also requires expertise in the equipment? You're acting like headphones are just a matter of throwing some parts into a bag and gluing them together.

Yet you refuse to accept Occam's Razor when it's staring you straight in the face. The reason no one has reproduced any of those expensive headphones at a fraction of the cost is no one has been able to. You're piling up your suppositions when the simplest explanation is that they really ARE that hard to make. Some of them are in development for 5-10 years. 

I have the SE846. I do not relish in the money I have spent nor do I think it makes me superior. If anything, it bums me out that I spent so much on a headphone. However, what I cannot argue is that they sound better than their $500 brother which was itself stellar. Headphones, to me, are not a club that requires an entry fee. It's a personal relationship between myself and the music. If I could have gotten this sound for $200 I would.

In fact, most reviews of (to use the example again) the SE846 show amazement at the fact that they sound better than MORE expensive products. If your hypothesis of "self-proclaimed audiophile gods" wanting to feel superiority by touting the most expensive headphones as best held water, this would not be the case. So there's that.

Then there's the Orpheus, which was never a mass produced headphone. It was an art exhibit much like the Final Audio Muramasa VIII. I believe they only made 300 of them. That's a big part of the price. No one buys the Orpheus because they were dissatisfied with their HD800s and thought they should upgrade. It's about having an engineering marvel and a handcrafted piece of audio art. Simple as that. 

I can confirm that making a headphone from design to reality is a very complex process that requires years of R&D that's hard to valuate in monetary terms with personal endless hours spent working into the small hours of the morning whilst most are asleep.

But I don't mind showing you what Ive come up with so far as its near production model status and looking to launch in the final quarter of this year.


Orpheus eat your heart out - this the much Morpheus for the people where everyone can be an audio god wink.gifbiggrin.gif
Edited by cb3723 - 6/17/14 at 3:04pm
post #1049 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

It is hard to say, true. And I think you were right that they're largely an "exhibit", but that's not a bad thing, is it? 

PartTimeAudiophile said in his review of the Abyss that headphones are the only industry where proofs of concept land on the market. When Chevy or Volkswagen have some engineering marvel to show off, it just stays in a display somewhere, but with headphones (probably since they cost less than cars) people go "I WANT TO BUY THAT NOW." Things like the Orpheus, the Abyss, the Muramasa, Stax and JH Roxanne are the kinds of products that have no real business being products, and yet they are.

I have no idea the kind of R&D that went into the Orpheus. I would wager the VAST majority of the resources went into the included amplifier, because that thing is ridiculous. And Sennheiser does have a track record of being... a little shady with their products (555/595 anyone?), so yeah.

Raw materials are never expensive, it's more in the engineering and production. Remember even if it's just made out of aluminum and cheap plastic there still has to be a manufacturing process and people working on it and they all need paid, the building needs covered, taxes, etc.

That's a lot of words to say "okay you got a point there" but whatever, LOL. 

My understanding of the Orpheus was that it was a project commissioned by Sennheiser to their in house engineers with the given instruction of - show me what you guys are capable of - make the best headphone system in the world - a blank canvas if you will.

Manufacturers do this every now and then - Bugatti Veyron being an example, of this concept under a different product which I think at its conception was under the ownership of VW.

Also, when these exotic flagship products are unveiled and commercially offered to the very small percentage of prospective buyers, the company that produced the product make no profit or even incur losses due to the high development R&D costs involved against small number of units manufactured for sale, but the reason that these products are commissioned in the if first place is more about making a statement to the world - a calling card that showcases their expertise, which creates media interest which obviously works as here we are today still talking and marveling over the Orpheus, a headphone made in the 90's, and this is the intrinsic value that these products provide to the brand names behind them - they keep their brand in the consciousness of consumers minds which is hard to quantify on how many people when on the market for a new headphone will choose Sennheiser due to their strong history of amazing engineering shown no better than the now infamous Orpheus.
post #1050 of 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb3723 View Post


I can confirm that making a headphone from design to reality is a very complex process that requires years of R&D that's hard to valuate in monetary terms with personal endless hours spent working into the small hours of the morning whilst most are asleep.

But I don't mind showing you what Ive come up with so far as its near production model status and looking to launch in the final quarter of this year.
 

Orpheus eat your heart out - this the much Morpheus for the people where everyone can be an audio god wink.gifbiggrin.gif


I would like to state, right here and right now, publically in this forum of 21,176 users (and an uncountable number of unregistered guests) that I have just been granted the privilege of entering the birthing room to see a headphone spawned before my very eyes.

 

We often think of headphone designers as hunchbacked old nerds with dust in the creases of their faces.  Here we see one of our own, cb3712, actually share with the creative process that leads to those audio harnesses into which we yoke our heads.

 

I would like to sign up to purchase Serial Number One of this soon-to-be-even-better-than-Beats-not-to-mention-Orpheus (the STBEBTBNTMO) series.  I will be happy to write my application on the face of a $100 bill if you tell me where I need to mail it!

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