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Audeze LCD-2 Impressions Thread - Page 227

post #3391 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taowolf51 View Post
 

So you're looking at this as a durability issue? If the LCD-XC was meant for the studio (has metal ring) it wouldn't have wooden cups. I don't know if the "studio durability" need stands up.

Have there been wood splitting issues since the new LCD-3 type connectors?

 

Was looking at the "with cable" weight. Point still stands, though, the SR-009 weighs as much as the LCD-2 (without fazor) and is overwhelmingly more comfortable.

 

I haven't had the chance to wear the LCD-X for hours at a time, but the LCD-2 stock (without any comfort mods) is wearable for maybe 45 minutes before I get a headache. The much heavier LCD-X would be an impossibility for me, despite the fact that they are my favorite headphone sound-wise. The fact that Audeze has fans (and this isn't a rare complaint) that can't wear their headphones without major discomfort (or even pain through headaches) for a reasonable amount of time should be a serious issue for them.

 

For comparison, I can (and have many times) wear my D7000's for 12-15 hour stretches. My issue isn't with headphones, it's with the combination of heavy weight and very poor headband comfort found in the Audeze headphones (especially the leather).

I was referring to durability in the ring area. I've seen most wooden cans fail there (even the most recent HE-560s before the redesign to veneer and the Grado RS1/RS2). With regards to weight, I wasn't simply going off of specs on a website, I happen to have both headphones right here and I find it very unfair to quote one headphone mass with the cable (LCD-X) and the other without (SR-009). I literally just put both down before I wrote this post and the LCD-X's are heavier by a good amount (when I take the cables out of the equation by resting them on a table). And the LCD-X's weigh the same as the LCD-2s. The Fasor's added only approx 50-70g of additional weight and are still heavier than the SR-009s. If you want to lighten up the cable weight of the LCD-X/2/XC/3, then I'd strongly suggest a Q Audio Cable. So to say they weigh the same is simply not true and unfair as one is an electrostatic headphone and the other is an ortho that requires magnets to drive them.

 

You can't compare the LCD-X to the D7000s, totally different headphone types and my goodness, they demolish the D7000s in sound quality and after all, isn't that what this is all about? With regards to overall comfort, I agree that the SR-009s are quite a bit more comfortable (and amongst the most comfortable headphones I own/owned), but the LCD-2/X/3/XC are pretty good at distributing the weight across my head and I can listen to them for hours with minimal adjustments. My initial comments were that I didn't want Audeze to sacrifice sound quality at the expense of weight/comfort like some other ortho manufacturers have...because the sound is by far the most important to me. 

 

YMMV of course with regards to comfort as no two heads are the exact same.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 6/29/14 at 8:38am
post #3392 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

I was referring to durability in the ring area. I've seen most wooden cans fail there (even the most recent HE-560s before the redesign to veneer and the Grado RS1/RS2). With regards to weight, I wasn't simply going off of specs on a website, I happen to have both headphones right here and I find it very unfair to quote one headphone mass with the cable (LCD-X) and the other without (SR-009). I literally just put both down before I wrote this post and the LCD-X's are heavier by a good amount (when I take the cables out of the equation by resting them on a table). And the LCD-X's weigh the same as the LCD-2s. The Fasor's added only approx 50-70g of additional weight and are still heavier than the SR-009s. If you want to lighten up the cable weight of the LCD-X/2/XC/3, then I'd strongly suggest a Q Audio Cable. So to say they weigh the same is simply not true and unfair as one is an electrostatic headphone and the other is an ortho that requires magnets to drive them.

 

You can't compare the LCD-X to the D7000s, totally different headphone types and my goodness, they demolish the D7000s in sound quality and after all, isn't that what this is all about? With regards to overall comfort, I agree that the SR-009s are quite a bit more comfortable (and amongst the most comfortable headphones I own/owned), but the LCD-2/X/3/XC are pretty good at distributing the weight across my head and I can listen to them for hours with minimal adjustments. My initial comments were that I didn't want Audeze to sacrifice sound quality at the expense of weight/comfort like some other ortho manufacturers have...because the sound is by far the most important to me. 

 

YMMV of course with regards to comfort as no two heads are the exact same.

 

I wasn't comparing the LCD-X and SR-009. I realized I took the "with cable" weight so I changed it to the LCD-2 and SR-009 (which are within 36g of each other, 454g vs 490g, easily close enough for a comfort comparison without having to worry about weight). My point from my last post is absolutely fair, 36g is minimal.

 

Again, I'm not talking about the LCD-X, I'm talking about the LCD-2. And personally, I think they trade blows.

 

Sound quality is what it's all about only as long as you're comfortable and in the mindset to enjoy it. If you were given the opportunity to eat the most delicious steak of your life whenever you want, but the only concession is that you have to allow someone else to pour lemon juice in your eyes while eating it, would you go back for that steak day after day? Or would you eat the second best steak of your life without the lemon juice?

 

I'm not asking for any sonic changes. A suspension headband does not impact sound quality, more headband padding does not affect sound quality. I don't really understand why you would argue against a headphone that sounds exactly the same but is more comfortable for more people. I'm not arguing for single sided drivers or any of that nonsense (I explicitly said that a few times).

 

You're right, all heads are different. However, I'm not the only one. Audeze is up there with Grado in number of comfort complaints (and may even beat Grado). It's a pretty widespread issue, and is preventing people from enjoying Audeze headphones. Wouldn't you rather more people be able to enjoy the amazing Audeze sound without being forced away because of comfort concerns? A more comfortable headband would do just that! It would be awesome! :D

post #3393 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taowolf51 View Post
 

 

I wasn't comparing the LCD-X and SR-009. I realized I took the "with cable" weight so I changed it to the LCD-2 and SR-009 (which are within 36g of each other, 454g vs 490g, easily close enough for a comfort comparison without having to worry about weight). My point from my last post is absolutely fair, 36g is minimal.

 

Again, I'm not talking about the LCD-X, I'm talking about the LCD-2. And personally, I think they trade blows.

 

Sound quality is what it's all about only as long as you're comfortable and in the mindset to enjoy it. If you were given the opportunity to eat the most delicious steak of your life whenever you want, but the only concession is that you have to allow someone else to pour lemon juice in your eyes while eating it, would you go back for that steak day after day? Or would you eat the second best steak of your life without the lemon juice?

 

I'm not asking for any sonic changes. A suspension headband does not impact sound quality, more headband padding does not affect sound quality. I don't really understand why you would argue against a headphone that sounds exactly the same but is more comfortable for more people. I'm not arguing for single sided drivers or any of that nonsense (I explicitly said that a few times).

 

You're right, all heads are different. However, I'm not the only one. Audeze is up there with Grado in number of comfort complaints (and may even beat Grado). It's a pretty widespread issue, and is preventing people from enjoying Audeze headphones. Wouldn't you rather more people be able to enjoy the amazing Audeze sound without being forced away because of comfort concerns? A more comfortable headband would do just that! It would be awesome! :D

 

Both the LCD-2 and LCD-X are both 600g now with the fasor elements installed and moving forward, that's the number that counts. And you're expecting the same level of headband design on a headphone that costs 5X the price? I've talked with many Audeze headphone owners and the vast majority of us don't understand how the weight is a factor once on one's head? I've owned the LCD-2s when they were first initially released way back when and while they were never "comfortable", they never were uncomfortable either (headband included) on my head. On my noggin', I've preferred the comfort of the Audeze headphones over the HE-6s or HE-500s, and I'd rather not have an entry looking headband on them like the HE-560s or the medieval torture device looking Abyss's headband.

 

I simply responded to SPWild's comment and for some reason you found issue with those simple comments of not wanting to sacrifice SQ at the expense of weight or veneer finishes. All heads are different and more padding could make them heavier and less comfortable for some heads...I happen to like them just as they are...that's the issue with one size fits all. 


Edited by MacedonianHero - 6/29/14 at 11:54am
post #3394 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

Both the LCD-2 and LCD-X are both 600g now with the fasor elements installed and moving forward, that's the number that counts. And you're expecting the same level of headband design on a headphone that costs 5X the price? I've talked with many Audeze headphone owners and the vast majority of us don't understand how the weight is a factor once on one's head? I've owned the LCD-2s when they were first initially released way back when and while they were never "comfortable", they never were uncomfortable either (headband included) on my head. On my noggin', I've preferred the comfort of the Audeze headphones over the HE-6s or HE-500s, and I'd rather not have an entry looking headband on them like the HE-560s.

 

I simply responded to SPWild's comment and for some reason you found issue with those simple comments of not wanting to sacrifice SQ at the expense of weight or veneer finishes. All heads are different and more padding could make them heavier and less comfortable for some heads...I happen to like them just as they are...that's the issue with one size fits all. 

 

That's actually not the number that counts, since I was comparing the LCD-2's I've used (bamboo without fazor) and the SR-009 I've used and the comfort level between them. The weight of the non-fazor bamboo model is actually the only number that counts in this comparison.

 

AKG can pull off a suspension headband in headphones significantly cheaper than the LCD-2, so I'd be extremely surprised if somehow Audeze was unable to. Suspension headbands or a bit of extra padding makes for a very minor change in cost, especially when compared to things like Fazor elements, which were added with no additional cost to all models. It's absolutely doable without cost issues.

 

The addition of a suspension strap or a little bit of extra foam would make just about no difference to weight, the fazor is significantly more heavy.

 

I in no way found issue with your not wanting to sacrifice SQ for comfort (and I feel like I keep having to tell you this, I agree that sound quality should not be affected), I found issue with your arguing against a change that would not affect price or sound quality, but would only impact comfort for the better. A bit of extra foam on a headband or a suspension strap does nothing to sound, weight, or price.


Edited by Taowolf51 - 6/29/14 at 1:08pm
post #3395 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taowolf51 View Post
 

 

That's actually not the number that counts, since I was comparing the LCD-2's I've used (bamboo without fazor) and the SR-009 I've used and the comfort level between them. The weight of the non-fazor bamboo model is actually the only number that counts in this comparison.

 

AKG can pull off a suspension headband in headphones significantly cheaper than the LCD-2, so I'd be extremely surprised if somehow Audeze was unable to. Suspension headbands or a bit of extra padding makes for a very minor change in cost, especially when compared to things like Fazor elements, which were added with no additional cost to all models. It's absolutely doable with zero drawbacks.

 

The addition of a suspension strap or a little bit of extra foam would make just about no difference to weight, the fazor is significantly more heavy.

 

I in no way found issue with your not wanting to sacrifice SQ for comfort (and I feel like I keep having to tell you this, I agree that sound quality should not be affected), I found issue with your arguing against a change that would not affect price or sound quality, but would only impact comfort for the better. A bit of extra foam on a headband or a suspension strap does nothing to sound, weight, or price.

I think we're agreeing on much...but again I (and many) actually find them quite good as is...changing them could run the risk of alienating many who don't have issues with them as they are. And trust me, many have complained of the AKG suspension headbands over the years (myself included). Not the greatest for comfort at all. Again, and while I agree that the SR-009s are more comfortable (said that twice), they sell for up to 4-5X the price...so expecting a similar construction is a bit too much IMO.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 6/29/14 at 1:11pm
post #3396 of 9829

i am sorry to ask again, is there any aftermarket cable that does not add brightness to the sound, and maybe even make the sound darker, and less bright

 

I hope not to spend over 100-150 USD on that cable

post #3397 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

I think we're agreeing on much...but again I (and many) actually find them quite good as is...changing them could run the risk of alienating many who don't have issues with them. And trust me, many have complained of the AKG suspension headbands over the years (myself included).

 

Definitely, we agree in most respects.

I can respect that you like how they are and don't want change. I do however think that the possibility of alienating people who currently like the normal headband is a fairly minor possibility compared to the current reality of the people who simply can't wear the headphones, and I don't think you'd alienate anyone by adding some extra foam to the current headband, I can't imagine someone getting angry about that. The vegan headband is already extremely popular because it has more padding than the leather, which shows a demand for a more padded headband. Were you disappointed when Audeze moved from the firmer earpads to the softer and more plush earpads? Also, ignoring a large group of users who find it uncomfortable isn't the best thing to do, especially if you want to make your customers happy (or keep them). Usually, those who couldn't deal with the discomfort ended up returning their Audeze headphones and going with another headphone brand, it's something I've heard many times.

 

One thing that is nice about the Audeze headphones is how modular they are, a suspension headband (or an extra padded standard headband) as an additional option is very possible. Audeze made the vegan headband and earpads because people didn't like using leather, an option for those who want a more comfortable headphone isn't a stretch I think.

 

I have heard of AKG headband complaints, but mostly over the fact that it has bumps (which the Audeze headband has as well). I've never really understood the reason for the bumps, as it reduces contact area on the head, and increases pressure in specific areas. The STAX design would be more effective (a strip of leather instead of foam bumps) and wouldn't be an expensive addition. You did say that they were some of the most comfortable headphones you've owned, which shows how effective it is (considering its similar weight to the LCD-2 non-f).

 

You said Audeze headphones have never been comfortable (but not uncomfortable either). Wouldn't it be nice if they were in fact a comfortable headphone? With a bit of research and testing (or maybe a bit of extra foam) it's very possible. Audeze took a step in the right direction with the new earpads (which are awesomely comfortable).

post #3398 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taowolf51 View Post
 

 

Definitely, we agree in most respects.

I can respect that you like how they are and don't want change. I do however think that the possibility of alienating people who currently like the normal headband is a fairly minor possibility compared to the current reality of the people who simply can't wear the headphones, and I don't think you'd alienate anyone by adding some extra foam to the current headband, I can't imagine someone getting angry about that. The vegan headband is already extremely popular because it has more padding than the leather, which shows a demand for a more padded headband. Were you disappointed when Audeze moved from the firmer earpads to the softer and more plush earpads? Also, ignoring a large group of users who find it uncomfortable isn't the best thing to do, especially if you want to make your customers happy (or keep them). Usually, those who couldn't deal with the discomfort ended up returning their Audeze headphones and going with another headphone brand, it's something I've heard many times.

 

One thing that is nice about the Audeze headphones is how modular they are, a suspension headband (or an extra padded standard headband) as an additional option is very possible. Audeze made the vegan headband and earpads because people didn't like using leather, an option for those who want a more comfortable headphone isn't a stretch I think.

 

I have heard of AKG headband complaints, but mostly over the fact that it has bumps (which the Audeze headband has as well). I've never really understood the reason for the bumps, as it reduces contact area on the head, and increases pressure in specific areas. The STAX design would be more effective (a strip of leather instead of foam bumps) and wouldn't be an expensive addition. You did say that they were some of the most comfortable headphones you've owned, which shows how effective it is (considering its similar weight to the LCD-2 non-f).

 

You said Audeze headphones have never been comfortable (but not uncomfortable either). Wouldn't it be nice if they were in fact a comfortable headphone? With a bit of research and testing (or maybe a bit of extra foam) it's very possible. Audeze took a step in the right direction with the new earpads (which are awesomely comfortable).

It would be nice to have them as comfortable as my HD800s and still sound great (and built with great materials)....but I'm fine with them as they are too. It's a balancing act...plus they'll have to keep costs in line too. But being orthos, I've tempered my expectations.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 6/29/14 at 2:58pm
post #3399 of 9829
I find that after a while my LCD-XC and LCD-2 both feel uncomfortable after a while. Certain parts on the top of my head begin to feel sore (I suspect because of the bumps and my padding has become rather compressed).

I don't care as I LOVE the sound. biggrin.gif
post #3400 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by x RELIC x View Post

I find that after a while my LCD-XC and LCD-2 both feel uncomfortable after a while. Certain parts on the top of my head begin to feel sore (I suspect because of the bumps and my padding has become rather compressed).

I don't care as I LOVE the sound. biggrin.gif

Audeze should really just release a bump-less version of their headband. Kinda like what AKG changed to.

post #3401 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

Audeze should really just release a bump-less version of their headband. Kinda like what AKG changed to.

That would be great, but not a deal breaker for me.

Given how easy and modular the headphones are I may want to engineer my own headband. I've seen others do this and it looks easy enough, and could be fun.

Check out the post from the XC thread here with the custom headband.

Image and mod credit to David1961 who did a fine job.

post #3402 of 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by x RELIC x View Post


That would be great, but not a deal breaker for me.

Given how easy and modular the headphones are I may want to engineer my own headband. I've seen others do this and it looks easy enough, and could be fun.

Check out the post from the XC thread here with the custom headband.

Image and mod credit to David1961 who did a fine job.

Looks cool! Do you know if it's adjustable?

post #3403 of 9829

You can modify the existing headband leather into a similar style as 560's.

You just need elastics nylon covered black hairbands stitched into the ends of the shortened leather/sponge strip.

That is what I'll be doing when I pick these up.

post #3404 of 9829

Some of you might remember me freaking out when I saw the FR plots showing recessed sub-bass in the Fazor models. I want to discuss that a little bit, now that I know these cans. I don't think these issues are amp related. My cans are out with Saoshyant right now for an audition, I've traded for his HE-400's (I'll write a review on them soon... tl;dr as related to this thread - comparing bass between these two cans is a no-go IMHO).

 

The roll-off/recession is quite noticable, and frankly, ruins the idea of the 'classic Audeze house sound' going forward unless serious changes are made. While bass is still just as tight and textured, the lack of perceived extension does two things::

1. Listening at low volumes is not engaging. You need low bass for things to have proper body, which I expect out of a top-tier can.

2. These cans are no longer the most natural can I've heard, that goes to the non-F 2.2's by a longshot, then NAD HP50's.

 

So what has the Fazor done? It's created mids and treble that sound more hi-fi, with all the same level of detail, with better seperation and timing. Treble has lost its smokey flavor in exchange for something more bland and sterile. These changes should have been left for a new model. The first time I heard an acoustic bass on the non-F 2.2's... I could've died right there a happy man. The sense of realism, with all the low rumblings of acoustic reverberation in the recording, made you feel like you're in a jazz hall. The more intimate stage (and honestly still some of the best imaging I've ever heard) just fit the frequency response in such a grand way... with old school styling, no doubt this is what led them to fame.

 

So am I having buyer's remorse? I don't know. The first week I had my cans on, there was nothing super exciting about them, but they really grew on me in a way I never would've expected. Perhaps it was just the me rediscovering old music in a new hi-fi way, idk. Would I do it again differently in the future? Probably, both for sound's sake and for the extra cash savings. My only hope is that Audeze gets the Fazor working with sub-bass and the old smokey, intimate sound in the future... then I'll throw money at them blindly :biggrin:.

 

Anyways, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

post #3405 of 9829

There is a line level circuit board that you can insert between the LCD-2 and your amp that brings up the mids (or any area you want changed) on pre-Fazor cans. There is one guy in Europe and one guy in USA that makes them custom to your frequency response and it is different to parametric EQ which is supposed to have more pronounced knock-on effects. Therefore you can keep your sub/bass intact and focus on the areas you want to change in mids/treble etc.

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