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The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 515

post #7711 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post
 

 

Technically, 80mW should be sufficient because the T1s should only require 63.1mW to produce 120dB (which is more than enough to cause hearing loss), however my experience with the T1s has been that while they don't need huge amounts of maximum power, they seem to benefit from a reasonable amount of power and this may be to do with the voltage swing and/or available current required as marshallmole said. Power output can be split between different ratios of voltage and current as I understand it so perhaps the soundcard is producing sufficient voltage, but not current or vice versa - this is getting beyond my technical knowledge, but I know what I've heard and the TH-900s seem to thrive on less powerful amps while the T1s need a bit more juice in my experience.

 

 

While I don't disagree with this in theory, I must have auditioned about a dozen different portable amps before taking the plunge with a desktop amp - despite some decent output power stats, not one of them actually had enough juice to drive the T1s. I'd have the volume maxed out and it would still sound too quiet. Then again maybe I've just killed my ears with years of punishing techno :D

post #7712 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by WraithApe View Post
 

 

While I don't disagree with this in theory, I must have auditioned about a dozen different portable amps before taking the plunge with a desktop amp - despite some decent output power stats, not one of them actually had enough juice to drive the T1s. I'd have the volume maxed out and it would still sound too quiet. Then again maybe I've just killed my ears with years of punishing techno :D

 

Yeah, I feel much the same in terms of 80mW not really being sufficient despite what the specs and physics say...

post #7713 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavelet View Post
 

>> That is, unless he is specifically determined to play the T1 game, rather than enjoy music. 

 

I want to like the T1, i love the design and how comfortable they are. It's a beautiful piece of audio equipment. So I actually want to make it work and sound better than the TH-900 :) They are also a whole lot cheaper (I paid $500 less for T1 than I did for TH-900).

Very well understood. But the underlying point of the previous posts is that, based on experience (rather than theory or specs), you might need spend those $500 on some desktop amp to make the T1 sing nicely--for based on your initial description, there has to be something wrong. 

But hey, ain't the TH900s just as beautiful, or even better looking? The only factor keeping me away is my ignorance and lack of experience about closed cans. 

And, if that is your goal, some amp auditioning could help. Well, I guess we may have to consider possibility of some defect in the headphones as well, just to be cautious. 

post #7714 of 7823
Hi everyone, finally pulled the trigger on the T1 - could not resist at the current $699 price (buydig). I am a big fan of the Grado RS1i and PS500 , my main headphones. I have been using Woo WA7 mostly ,since 5/13 (will have new tube power supply in a week or so). Also have the OTL Bellari ha-540 with several choice 12ax7 nos tubes to roll in. I have been interested in the T1 for some time now, it is one of the few non-Grado phones I have really wanted to check out. My setup: iMac/mostly hi-rez files/Pure Music/WA7.
post #7715 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshallmole View Post
 

I'm not going to disagree with any of above said, but would like to mention a few things to consider:

The output of an opamp chip does not usually equal the output of the headphone amp itself, especially in terms of quality. 

I believe output voltage swing has also a lot to do with how headphone sounds, especially when it's high impedance like T1. 

I also think soundcards' performance depend on the power supply of the computer to some degree. 

 

Finally, my opinion is that maybe wavelet should stick to the TH900s since it seems to have less requirement for amping, and has been enjoyed already, and does not seem to be inferior in general to T1s. That is, unless he is specifically determined to play the T1 game, rather than enjoy music. 

Btw just for the record, TI TPA6120A2 is not an opamp chip, it's an actual single chip end-stage amplifier that is intended to be connected directly to headphones (Stereo Hi−Fi Headphone Driver according to TI diagram). The card uses 4 more fairly high end opamps for pre-amplification.

post #7716 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavelet View Post
 

Btw just for the record, TI TPA6120A2 is not an opamp chip, it's an actual single chip end-stage amplifier that is intended to be connected directly to headphones (Stereo Hi−Fi Headphone Driver according to TI diagram). The card uses 4 more fairly high end opamps for pre-amplification.

 

2 * JRC 2114 for I/V stage feading the TI TPA6120A2 / line out , the other 2 opamp (LME49710) are only used in the line out as buffers .

post #7717 of 7823
Would a cyphers Duet be enough to make these sound good? I plan to add a nice portable amp with my dx90.
Edited by DucatiMatt - 6/21/14 at 3:00pm
post #7718 of 7823

I have been using my T1's with the Beyerdynamic A1. I found that the A1 was struggling to power them. I got a hold of a Schiit Lyr 1 yesterday and am very happy.

 

Oodles of power that really gets a grip of the T1's at a third of the price of the A1  

post #7719 of 7823

Hi guys, finally :biggrin:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                   -Beauty and the Beast-  :L3000: ( am I dreaminggggggg?) 

- The audiophile life chose me, I didn't choose it 

post #7720 of 7823

Hi Benjamin, well done on getting the T1s, Congratulations, enjoy !  

post #7721 of 7823
Thank you Mozartaudio, I'm very happy to be a part of this group.
post #7722 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post

Technically, 80mW should be sufficient because the T1s should only require 63.1mW to produce 120dB (which is more than enough to cause hearing loss), however my experience with the T1s has been that while they don't need huge amounts of maximum power, they seem to benefit from a reasonable amount of power and this may be to do with the voltage swing and/or available current required as marshallmole said. Power output can be split between different ratios of voltage and current as I understand it so perhaps the soundcard is producing sufficient voltage, but not current or vice versa - this is getting beyond my technical knowledge, but I know what I've heard and the TH-900s seem to thrive on less powerful amps while the T1s need a bit more juice in my experience.

Technically 80mW is more than enough for T1. The problem is the spec sheet of an amp does not give the clear picture of how it actually performs at a given load.

The important aspect of an amp is how it can sustain delivering the same level of power all the time not just the spike at a given load.

As an example, my Hifi-M8 according to spec sheet is capable of delivering a 1000 mW typical and 1400mW max. But it didn't say at which load. However, they provided the voltage level in each gain settings.

At first glance you will think that it is more powerful than say an O2 (which delivers 83mW @ 600 Ohm load). However, in practice the O2 can drive the T1 louder and has more control over the M8.

At 2.5X gain I seldom need to turn the volume knob past 3 o'clock on O2 (source is DX90 at 1.7Vrms output) or it will be painfully loud. I would get the same level in my M8 only at high gain and also at 3 o'clock position of the volume knob. But it still feels the O2 has better control of the T1's diaphragm than the M8.

O2 didn't even need the full 80mW to drive the T1 with authority in this case (roughly around 30mW with DX90 at 1.7Vrms output and O2 at 2.5X gain)

As for the Hifi-M8, again the voltage spec is useless. As per actual measurements done by innerfidelity.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/trusted-traveling-companion-centrance-hifi-m8-portable-headphone-ampdac

At Max gain the M8 is capable of delivering +13.9 dBV. If my math is right, it would translate to 40mW of power @ 600Ohm load.

It only goes to show that we should not take amp spec sheet at face value. One may seem powerful enough than the other but performance can be quite the opposite. But the math is alway right.
Edited by headwhacker - 6/26/14 at 10:02pm
post #7723 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjaminhuypham View Post
 

Hi guys, finally

Congrats! I'm sure you'll enjoy the T1 ;)

 

BTW, can I ask what the serial number is? Your T1's box looks a bit different than mine.

post #7724 of 7823
Do the T1 ($760) or HE-500 ($600) offer the best value currently?
post #7725 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by matti620 View Post

Do the T1 ($760) or HE-500 ($600) offer the best value currently?

 

I own both and would recommend the T1 every time. Even though the HE-500 is really good, the T1 offers better transparency, imaging and overall tonality (comparing both headphones with optimal amps - i.e. T1 w Bottlehead Mainline and HE-500 w Bottlehead S.E.X.)

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