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The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 474

post #7096 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTom View Post
 

Does anyone here have any suggestions of an EQ software for the mac? What EQ settings should I apply for the T1 to control the treble spikes?


what amp are you using ?

post #7097 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnupiima View Post
 

EQ down does not introduce distortion, correct.

Actually by definition EQ does introduce distortion, either up or down.

post #7098 of 7895

If you define distortion as a deviation from the norm, and If your headphone's FR has deviations like peaks and nulls that are colorations compared to a neutral sound, then an EQ working to flatten out its sound would be 'getting rid of distortion' in a sense.

post #7099 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by punit View Post


what amp are you using ?

O2/ODAC, this is supposed to be a very transparent combo and is not supposed to colour the sound in which case what I am hearing is the true response of the T1.

 

On a side note I know some people might say that the O2/ODAC combo cannot fully drive the T1 but based on discussions in a thread discussing this specific question within the sound science forums no convincing technical arguments IMO have so far been presented to support this claim:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/707169/can-the-o2-amp-fully-drive-the-beyerdynamic-t1

 

If you want to discuss the specific topic of driving the T1 with an O2 amp, it'd be better to discuss in the above thread IMO.

 

I'm at the moment specifically interested in using EQ to tame the treble of the T1.


Edited by PTom - 3/5/14 at 1:07am
post #7100 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTom View Post
 

O2/ODAC, this is supposed to be a very transparent combo and is not supposed to colour the sound un which case what I am hearing is the true response of the T1.

 

On a side note I know some people might say that the O2/ODAC combo cannot fully drive the T1 but based on discussions in a thread discussing this specific question within the sound science forums no convincing technical arguments IMO have so far been presented to support this claim:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/707169/can-the-o2-amp-fully-drive-the-beyerdynamic-t1

 

If you want to discuss the specific topic of driving the T1 with an O2 amp, it'd be better to discuss in the above thread IMO.

 

I'm at the moment specifically interested in using EQ to tame the treble of the T1.


The T1 is simply stunning with tubes I am in no hurry to go back to solidstate.

post #7101 of 7895

*Objectively* as long as it is loud enough and not clipping at all and the output impedance isn't causing problems then it is driven to its fullest using SS amping regardless of price.  The only differences are if the amp has been tuned to not put out totally flat sound ~ which is measurable. I've done blindfolded testing when I thought the idea of it was totally redundant, unfortunately for me I found out I couldn't hear big enough changes to name which amps were expensive or cheap, or what was what. However once the blindfold came off the differences were definitely apparent to me. This is placebo due to expectations, price etc. Personally I don't listen to my headphones with a blindfold, most normal people wouldn't either, so I don't begrudge people enjoying different amp models at all, because even *if* the differences are not measurable the *perceived* differences can bring people satisfaction and pleasure. After all outside of blind testing audio is subjective and is to be enjoyed in whatever way one desires.

 

This only applied to amps that are not tuned specifically to change the sound (like say boosting bass etc) which is no less valid at all if you desire that sound signature.

 

Tube amps are difference as they add certain distortion to the sound in many cases, but this distortion is usually pleasurable and adds musicality to the sound if done in a specific way, at the loss of a small amount of "transparency". Distortion may sound like a bad word for it, but sure as hell can sound good and has been enjoyed for decades!

 

Tube amps that have weaker treble frequency by roll off can weaken the treble of the T1 and other bright headphones and make them more tonally pleasurable, think of it as a type of EQ which can be changed at will with types of Tubes.

 

I don't want to incite an argument with this post at all, and I apologize ahead to anyone who feels strongly in disagreement.

post #7102 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Schism View Post

 

Tube amps are difference as they add certain distortion to the sound in many cases, but this distortion is usually pleasurable and adds musicality to the sound if done in a specific way, at the loss of a small amount of "transparency". Distortion may sound like a bad word for it, but sure as hell can sound good and has been enjoyed for decades!

 

Tube amps that have weaker treble frequency by roll off can weaken the treble of the T1 and other bright headphones and make them more tonally pleasurable, think of it as a type of EQ which can be changed at will with types of Tubes.

 

I don't want to incite an argument with this post at all, and I apologize ahead to anyone who feels strongly in disagreement.

 

I can agree with all of that. Distortion should be your friend, it is distortion that gives each instrument or voice its, uniqueness. The electric guitar is a prime example of distortion being a integral part of the sound they are often tube amped to enhance this characteristic.

 

Though I have found its possible for tubes to be both very resolving or rolled off and even have treble that is grimacingly painful with the T1's.

 

Finding ones own harmonic balance is the quest and that is a very personal thing.

post #7103 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post

 

I can agree with all of that. Distortion should be your friend, it is distortion that gives each instrument or voice its, uniqueness. The electric guitar is a prime example of distortion being a integral part of the sound they are often tube amped to enhance this characteristic.

 

Though I have found its possible for tubes to be both very resolving or rolled off and even have treble that is grimacingly painful with the T1's.

 

Finding ones own harmonic balance is the quest and that is a very personal thing.

 



Following that logic, then each music has to a certain degree already has embedded distortion the way the artist want to project the music? Playing back the same music with added distortion in the playback chain is more like going against the inteded purpose?

Take a painting for example, looking at it up close with your own eyes will never be the same as looking at the picture of the same painting taken from a point and shoot camera. Would you hear anyone say looking at the photograph is much pleasurable than the actual painting?

Just a thought.
post #7104 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post
 

 

I can agree with all of that. Distortion should be your friend, it is distortion that gives each instrument or voice its, uniqueness. The electric guitar is a prime example of distortion being a integral part of the sound they are often tube amped to enhance this characteristic.

 

Though I have found its possible for tubes to be both very resolving or rolled off and even have treble that is grimacingly painful with the T1's.

 

Finding ones own harmonic balance is the quest and that is a very personal thing.

 

I can't agree with that at all.

 

IMO distortion is deviation from the source. If, for example, a electric guitar is played deliberately with amp distortion then that becomes part of it's sound. It is not deviation from the source and therefore is not distortion. Distortion is not added to an instruments sound.

 

Generally distortion is bad, that's why I normally prefer SS to tubes. You have to remember that any amp that's adds significant distortion will do so on all recordings. Some will benefit but some will be negatively effected. I don't want that.

 

Distortion is only your friend if you want a colored, rose tinted or over saturated tonal sound. IMO

post #7105 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwhacker View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post
 

 

I can agree with all of that. Distortion should be your friend, it is distortion that gives each instrument or voice its, uniqueness. The electric guitar is a prime example of distortion being a integral part of the sound they are often tube amped to enhance this characteristic.

 

Though I have found its possible for tubes to be both very resolving or rolled off and even have treble that is grimacingly painful with the T1's.

 

Finding ones own harmonic balance is the quest and that is a very personal thing.

 



Following that logic, then each music has to a certain degree already has embedded distortion the way the artist want to project the music? Playing back the same music with added distortion in the playback chain is more like going against the inteded purpose?

Take a painting for example, looking at it up close with your own eyes will never be the same as looking at the picture of the same painting taken from a point and shoot camera. Would you hear anyone say looking at the photograph is much pleasurable than the actual painting?

Just a thought.


That's interesting we seem to be aiming for the same goal but are coming from different directions.

 

Funnily enough I look at the picture analogy from the exact opposite view, the camera without doubt reproduces an exact identical image ie solid state. For me tube amplification conveys more the sense of seeing the subject of the picture close up with ones own eyes.

 

My view would be that both the artist of the picture and the viewer are more interested in portraying the subject of the painting than the edges surrounding the subject (though they are important). Sometimes its better to have one eye on the real thing than two eyes on the picture.

 

We could go round in circles all day I am sure. It would also be a much better conversation to have over a pint and a pie!

 

These T1's are amazing phones I seem to have forgotten about my others.


Edited by JamieMcC - 3/5/14 at 3:07am
post #7106 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

 

I can't agree with that at all.

 

 

You don't have to its a free world unless your one of those types who like to force their opinions on others. Its merely a discussion of preferences.

 

I like the life like vocal tones (distortion) I hear with my tube set up.

 

Colored, rose tinted or over saturated tonal sound can just as easily come from solid state equipment, its not just a tube thing!


Edited by JamieMcC - 3/5/14 at 3:16am
post #7107 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post
 

 

You don't have to its a free world unless your one of those types who like to force their opinions on others. Its merely a discussion of preferences.

 

I like the life like vocal tones (distortion) I hear with my tube set up.

 

So was mine.

 

How do you define 'life like'. If you mean sounding real and palpable then that's fine.

However if you mean as was originally recorded or as if you would hear if you were standing close to the artist when they were performing then no , distortion by definition will change that.

There will already be significant distortion from the mic and recording equipment that I would prefer, for good or bad, not to add even more via my amp or source.

 

 

P.S I also love the life like vocals with my true to life SS system  :wink_face: 


Edited by nigeljames - 3/5/14 at 3:24am
post #7108 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

So was mine.

P.S I also love the life like vocals with my true to life SS system  :wink_face:

 

lol

 

The T1's I have found to be probably one of the best phones to listen to for neutral-ness. I don't feel they are adding to the sound, only providing a transparent window which makes them great to listen with, if you have a good source and amplification.   


Edited by JamieMcC - 3/5/14 at 3:32am
post #7109 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post
 

 

lol

 

The T1's I have found to be probably one of the best phones to listen to for neutral-ness. I don't feel they are adding to the sound, only providing a transparent window which makes them great to listen with, if you have a good source and amplification.   

 

+1 That we do agree on. :D

post #7110 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post
 


That's interesting we seem to be aiming for the same goal but are coming from different directions.

 

Funnily enough I look at the picture analogy from the exact opposite view, the camera without doubt reproduces an exact identical image ie solid state. For me tube amplification conveys more the sense of seeing the subject of the picture close up with ones own eyes.

 

My view would be that both the artist of the picture and the viewer are more interested in portraying the subject of the painting than the edges surrounding the subject (though they are important). Sometimes its better to have one eye on the real thing than two eyes on the picture.

 

We could go round in circles all day I am sure. It would also be a much better conversation to have over a pint and a pie!

 

These T1's are amazing phones I seem to have forgotten about my others.

 

I'm looking at all these fantastic photo's of tube amps and headphones and think I want all of them.  A lot of good hobbyist photographers in this forum.  But on the subject of photography, yeah - it seems to me that photo's can look so darned great via the LCD screen - I never really ever get that sensation when I actually view an object.  Art is very subjective and is not meant to imitate real life though.

 

Some of these good studio recordings, the producer will make an artist do a section over and over again, relentlessly - and pick the best sample to mix.  A live performance entails imperfections and does not come close to some of these great studio masters.  Art is subjective, music is subjective and our reproduction goals are different at the end users digression.

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