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The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 374

post #5596 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


I think the improvements people hear are purely related to sound signature preference, some like the brighter T1 sound much more, and will define it as being better. When directly comparing the T1 to HD650, HD650 will lose, because it will seem muffled or too dark, although that's not true, and that feeling is only present for a short period of time before your brain adjusts from one sound signature to another. T1 gives an illusion of more clarity and/or detail when switching to it from HD650 . But thats not how audio gear is can be properly judged, its impossible to properly evaluate gear without long term testing. If I listen to both headphones for lets say a week straight, I like the HD650 better at the end of it. Its a headphone that hides its pro's and throws con's at you. Compared to many headphones even below its price range, it would lose in a A-B test, at least with most listeners. Beyer is the opposite, its throws all it has at you on the first listen, but with time it kinda becomes obvious its not as great as it first seemed. Clarity and detail translate into listening fatigue and annoyance, and lack of body in certain music. The over-exaggerated clarity gets frustrating to live with, a headphone so picky about the sound file quality can get annoying. It makes me personally choose the music I will listen to not by the music itself, but by the quality of the recording. That is fun for a while when critically listening, and in critical tests, T1 would win against HD650 in most categories, but when it comes to just pure music enjoyment, HD650 is the king. At least for me. Its a very polarizing headphone for me, sometimes I like it, sometimes I hate it when switching between headphones. But whenever I stick to it for a longer period of time , I just have a hard time finding a reason to own any other headphone. Its the ultimate hi-fi headphone, perfect blend between analytical and warm musical sound, an absolute best buy in my opinion.

 

+1 i feel you 

:D

post #5597 of 7813

Sorry but IMO their is no comparison between the HD650's and the T1's with the T1's being in a totally different class, or 3, ahead.

The HD650's do nothing better than a properly driven T1 (and yes I have owned the HD650's and currently own the T1's).

 

If you prefer the HD650's then it could be that you just like their signature more or that the rest of your system is not good enough to reveal the clear superiority of the T1's.

 

Looking at your sig I would hazard a guess that it's a bit of both.

post #5598 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

Sorry but IMO their is no comparison between the HD650's and the T1's with the T1's being in a totally different class, or 3, ahead.

The HD650's do nothing better than a properly driven T1 (and yes I have owned the HD650's and currently own the T1's).

 

If you prefer the HD650's then it could be that you just like their signature more or that the rest of your system is not good enough to reveal the clear superiority of the T1's.

 

Looking at your sig I would hazard a guess that it's a bit of both.

 

+1

post #5599 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

Sorry but IMO their is no comparison between the HD650's and the T1's with the T1's being in a totally different class, or 3, ahead.

The HD650's do nothing better than a properly driven T1 (and yes I have owned the HD650's and currently own the T1's).

 

If you prefer the HD650's then it could be that you just like their signature more or that the rest of your system is not good enough to reveal the clear superiority of the T1's.

 

Looking at your sig I would hazard a guess that it's a bit of both.

 

being a fan of both and having owned both. the T1 is in another league.

 

+2

post #5600 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Sorry but IMO their is no comparison between the HD650's and the T1's with the T1's being in a totally different class, or 3, ahead.
The HD650's do nothing better than a properly driven T1 (and yes I have owned the HD650's and currently own the T1's).

If you prefer the HD650's then it could be that you just like their signature more or that the rest of your system is not good enough to reveal the clear superiority of the T1's.

Looking at your sig I would hazard a guess that it's a bit of both.


Sorry, but I have to disagree. This sort of stuff is what slowly makes me lose all respect towards what I read in the high end part of head-fi. I mean, stop freaking over-exaggerating. T1's 3 classes ahead of HD650? Really? In which way? Nobody is saying that HD650's do anything better than T1's, but saying that they're outclassed (or triple-outclassed as you claim) by T1's is just stupid. I have them both in front of me now, I can volume match them using a 1khz tone and A-B compare them. But I won't do that, because I did it countless time before, and as I said in the previous post, T1's always won. Switching between them is like switching between two very good headphones with totally different sound signatures, but none of them scream "hey I'm the more expensive one!!!", or "that one sucks, pick me!!!". T1's in a direct comparison do sound more detailed, fast, open, clear, etc., as I already said, but not to the extent where HD650's are totally outclassed and stop giving the impression of a really great sounding headphone. Sometimes when you compare two headphones directly, you listen to one of them, take it off, put the other one on and you think "yea...this sucks, it's definitely much worse". It's not the case with T1 vs HD650, definitely not. In fact with some music HD650's just sound better. I mean, we're talking about a headphone that 4 years ago was THE best mainstream consumer headphone on the market, something that sounded so good nobody thought it could get considerably better. Nowadays some people talk about it as if its complete rubbish just to justify the fact that they paid much more for a product someone else told them is much better. I don't buy stories like that, I did when I was 6, not anymore. I mean, a little less elitism, arrogance, just over-the-top-exaggeration and a bit more realism and common sense could do good to these threads.

Also, about the "properly driven" T1's...what about the properly driven HD650's? What if you used the HD650's out of a 2500 dollar OTL amp? I mean, it has a reputation of scaling very well with expensive gear.


About the T1's being in another league compared to the HD650's....yes, they are, but that league is not far ahead.

This is how I would rate them:

Apple earbuds........HD202...............................................................HD558.................HD650....T1

Or if you will:

Apple earbuds........HD202........................................................................DT770Pro..DT880.......T1
Edited by derbigpr - 9/28/13 at 12:05pm
post #5601 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


Sorry, but I have to disagree. This sort of stuff is what slowly makes me lose all respect towards what I read in the high end part of head-fi. I mean, stop freaking over-exaggerating. T1's 3 classes ahead of HD650? Really? In which way? Nobody is saying that HD650's do anything better than T1's, but saying that they're outclassed (or triple-outclassed as you claim) by T1's is just stupid. I have them both in front of me now, I can volume match them using a 1khz tone and A-B compare them. But I won't do that, because I did it countless time before, and as I said in the previous post, T1's always won. Switching between them is like switching between two very good headphones with totally different sound signatures, but none of them scream "hey I'm the more expensive one!!!", or "that one sucks, pick me!!!". T1's in a direct comparison do sound more detailed, fast, open, clear, etc., as I already said, but not to the extent where HD650's are totally outclassed and stop giving the impression of a really great sounding headphone. Sometimes when you compare two headphones directly, you listen to one of them, take it off, put the other one on and you think "yea...this sucks, it's definitely much worse". It's not the case with T1 vs HD650, definitely not. In fact with some music HD650's just sound better. I mean, we're talking about a headphone that 4 years ago was THE best mainstream consumer headphone on the market, something that sounded so good nobody thought it could get considerably better. Nowadays some people talk about it as if its complete rubbish just to justify the fact that they paid much more for a product someone else told them is much better. I don't buy stories like that, I did when I was 6, not anymore. I mean, a little less elitism, arrogance, just over-the-top-exaggeration and a bit more realism and common sense could do good to these threads.

Also, about the "properly driven" T1's...what about the properly driven HD650's? What if you used the HD650's out of a 2500 dollar OTL amp? I mean, it has a reputation of scaling very well with expensive gear.

 

properly driven T1 = Woo Audio 2 or a really nice SS amp.

 

properly driven HD 650s = any nice OTL or tube amp or TOTL SS amp. the HD 650 when properly driven scales very high and sounds like a much more expensive headphone.

 

remember 3 classes or just different or slightly better, its all preference and subjective, but the T1 is still a much better headphone. 

 

of course value for the money comes into play, i can say the T1 is worth the price difference and the improvements are worth it, and puts the T1 in another class, others might argue and say its better, but not 3x better. so yeah IMO, FWIW, YMMV, etc....

post #5602 of 7813

anyways listening to T1 today, these are still my favorite headphones, and even vs both audezes, hifiman, and sennheiser and even the th-900, these have the BEST bass. at least for my tastes. not heavy, not light, and with a decay and sound that i really like.

post #5603 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post
 

 

being a fan of both and having owned both. the T1 is in another league.

 

+2

 

+3 

 

I have both HD650 and T1 and use them both regularly, the T1 kicks the ***** out of the HD650 in every department. I love the 650's for rock and metal - like metallicas black album, the cymbols sound a bit sharp on T1, the HD650 tames that a bit. There are one or two albums were i prefer the HD650 but for 95% of the time its the T1 for me.  

post #5604 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccabbage View Post
 

 

+3 

 

I have both HD650 and T1 and use them both regularly, the T1 kicks the ***** out of the HD650 in every department. I love the 650's for rock and metal - like metallicas black album, the cymbols sound a bit sharp on T1, the HD650 tames that a bit. There are one or two albums were i prefer the HD650 but for 95% of the time its the T1 for me.  

 

u should also try out a grado sometime. i miss my RS1i for rock/metal. most of the time the T1 does great, but sometimes i just miss that grado sound. 

 

the PS1000 unfortunately left me cold, i guess i could try them sometime again in the future with WA22 instead of WA6-SE, but ultimately, the Rs1i is better.

post #5605 of 7813
Subscribing with my T1 #15181. A big step up from my HD 598. Enjoying the inputs from this thread!
Edited by gameboy - 9/28/13 at 6:29pm
post #5606 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy View Post

Subscribing with my T1 #15181. A big step up from my HD 598. Enjoying the inputs from this thread!

 

Welcome to the Thread  

                                      :beyersmile:

post #5607 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


Sorry, but I have to disagree. This sort of stuff is what slowly makes me lose all respect towards what I read in the high end part of head-fi. I mean, stop freaking over-exaggerating. T1's 3 classes ahead of HD650? Really? In which way? Nobody is saying that HD650's do anything better than T1's, but saying that they're outclassed (or triple-outclassed as you claim) by T1's is just stupid. I have them both in front of me now, I can volume match them using a 1khz tone and A-B compare them. But I won't do that, because I did it countless time before, and as I said in the previous post, T1's always won. Switching between them is like switching between two very good headphones with totally different sound signatures, but none of them scream "hey I'm the more expensive one!!!", or "that one sucks, pick me!!!". T1's in a direct comparison do sound more detailed, fast, open, clear, etc., as I already said, but not to the extent where HD650's are totally outclassed and stop giving the impression of a really great sounding headphone. Sometimes when you compare two headphones directly, you listen to one of them, take it off, put the other one on and you think "yea...this sucks, it's definitely much worse". It's not the case with T1 vs HD650, definitely not. In fact with some music HD650's just sound better. I mean, we're talking about a headphone that 4 years ago was THE best mainstream consumer headphone on the market, something that sounded so good nobody thought it could get considerably better. Nowadays some people talk about it as if its complete rubbish just to justify the fact that they paid much more for a product someone else told them is much better. I don't buy stories like that, I did when I was 6, not anymore. I mean, a little less elitism, arrogance, just over-the-top-exaggeration and a bit more realism and common sense could do good to these threads.

Also, about the "properly driven" T1's...what about the properly driven HD650's? What if you used the HD650's out of a 2500 dollar OTL amp? I mean, it has a reputation of scaling very well with expensive gear.


About the T1's being in another league compared to the HD650's....yes, they are, but that league is not far ahead.

This is how I would rate them:

Apple earbuds........HD202...............................................................HD558.................HD650....T1

Or if you will:

Apple earbuds........HD202........................................................................DT770Pro..DT880.......T1

 

Sorry but with the system you have you are probably hearing ~60% of what the HD650's are capable of and about ~10% of what the T1's are capable of and yet you still admit the T1's are superior in nearly every area. The problem is the T1's are showing up the limitations of your system while the HD650's will be, mostly, covering up those limitations.

Forgiveness is the only real strengh of the HD650's IMO, unless you specifically like their character.

The best amp I heard the HD650's on? Well when I had them I had the Woo6 SE and they sounded just OK. Actually they were totally beaten by the AKG 701's and Ultrasone ALO-780's that I also had at that time. They also did not really sound much better than a £50 per of sennheisers that I also had lying around for travel purposes.

 

Since then a few months ago I got to hear a pair again though my current system running balanced with a Silver Dragon v2 cable ( a cable I also used with them when I had them,just not balanced) I have never heard them sound better but head to head with my T1's (stock reterninated cable) they were still compresensively outclassed in basically every area.

IMO the HD650's are amn over hyped phone that are normaley hyped by people who love their basic character, have a mediocre system and what to hide it's flaws or have just not heard anything better to compare them too.

No disrespect intended but your system is not even getting anywhere near driving the HD650's at their best so it is probably totally under performing with the T1's.

 

I know someone who had the HD650's and the HD800's on the Woo2. He liked them both and could clearly hear the superiority of the HD800's but felt the difference was quite slight and no where near the difference in their cost. He then got to hear the HD800's & HD650's with the EC Zana Deux, an amp rated very highly with both phones and after that he could not listen to the HD650's any more.

 

I therefore stand by my claim that the T1's are upto 3 classes above the HD650's if you are not biased towards the HD650's character and both are run properly.

post #5608 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

 

<snip>

 

.... Actually they were totally beaten by the AKG 701's ......

 

<snip>

 

Certainly puts your opinions into perspective.

post #5609 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Sorry but with the system you have you are probably hearing ~60% of what the HD650's are capable of and about ~10% of what the T1's are capable of



I stopped reading here because I assume the rest of the post is an even bigger waste of time.

By the way, I've heard the T1's AND HD650's with many much more expensive setups than what I have, the Violectric V200, Teac UD-501 (which was voiced using T1's), Asus Essence One (which even people who have 5000$+ setups with T1 like), Lehmann BCL, Musical Fidelity M1HPA, several really, really expensive DIY OTL amps that sound better than anything I've heard from any commercial headamp. While it did improve over what I have, they're only marginal improvements, nuances. Definitely not night and day jumps in performance as you'd like to claim. T1's still sound like T1's. You make it sound as if Musical Fidelity M1DAC + Little Dot MkIII, MkV or Nuforce HDP sound like ****. Stop assuming you know what my setup sounds like. You've never heard it.

This is it for me. I don't have time to talk to people who hear the grass growing.
post #5610 of 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


[/B]


I stopped reading here because I assume the rest of the post is an even bigger waste of time.

By the way, I've heard the T1's AND HD650's with many much more expensive setups than what I have, the Violectric V200, Teac UD-501 (which was voiced using T1's), Asus Essence One (which even people who have 5000$+ setups with T1 like), Lehmann BCL, Musical Fidelity M1HPA, several really, really expensive DIY OTL amps that sound better than anything I've heard from any commercial headamp. While it did improve over what I have, they're only marginal improvements, nuances. Definitely not night and day jumps in performance as you'd like to claim. T1's still sound like T1's. You make it sound as if Musical Fidelity M1DAC + Little Dot MkIII, MkV or Nuforce HDP sound like ****. Stop assuming you know what my setup sounds like. You've never heard it.

This is it for me. I don't have time to talk to people who hear the grass growing.

Me thinks you protest too much :wink_face: 

 

Bottom line the T1's are a different class, or 3, than the HD650's IMO and in the opinion of other posters. You obviously like the HD650's character and that's great but it will give a rather biased opinion but to be fair I may also be biased against a average headphone like the HD650's but that's my opinion and just as justified as anybody else's who has actaully listened exstensively to both phones.


Edited by nigeljames - 9/29/13 at 8:22am
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