or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 355

post #5311 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by sp3llv3xit View Post



Hi Dubstep Girl,

 

Thanks for the all the info and insights you've shared.  I pulled the trigger on the WA6-SE.  Just want to know if it pairs well with Hifiman HE6?

 

I don't have the WA6-SE but i think you will have problems powering the HE6 with that, as far as i know it needs more power. Here is a thread dedicated to powering the HE6. -

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones

post #5312 of 10479

What is your source? iMac? PC? do you have software on your computer that will automatically set the output sample rate to that of the audio file you are playing?

 

Currently the Toslink is connected to my pc (who run in linux). I have a laptop with windows 7, I have installed the driver and it was still showing 44k1 instead of 192k. I don't have any software that set the output sample rate, first time I ear of this.

post #5313 of 10479

WA6-SE works well with HE-500 and HE-5LE (especially if you get the more powerful tubes like 6FD7 and 6GL7). i don't think it'll have the power for the HE-6 though.

post #5314 of 10479

I got my dac working on ubuntu with the usb, now I will check how the sampling works.

post #5315 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmorneau View Post

What is your source? iMac? PC? do you have software on your computer that will automatically set the output sample rate to that of the audio file you are playing?

 

Currently the Toslink is connected to my pc (who run in linux). I have a laptop with windows 7, I have installed the driver and it was still showing 44k1 instead of 192k. I don't have any software that set the output sample rate, first time I ear of this.

 

OK. The rate that the DAC shows you, is the sampling rate of the Audio Data or Audio data file that is being sent to it, regardless of whether it is being sent over USB, TOSlink, or any other SPDIF type interface.

 

In a simplified view, it all depends on how fast the source (i.e., your PC) is pushing the data at the DAC. If the PC is sending out the data at a speed of around 96,000 samples (typically 2 to 4 bytes per sample) per second, the DAC syncs up with it and starts converting the incoming data samples at that same rate. The DAC must convert the digital data at the same rate it was created.

 

The above is how TOSlink, SPDIF, and the 2 synchronous USB transfer modes work. The newest USB transfer mode which is asynchronous in nature is where the PC tells the DAC it wants to send a file at a particular rate but the DAC controls the transfer by specifically requesting the data from the PC at the desired rate. Bottom line is still that the PC controls the sampling rate associated with the data being transferred to the DAC in all interfaces.

 

Note that the normal USB drivers for Windows do not typically know how to send audio data over USB--i.e., they do not support the international standards for USB Audio Class 2.0. There are 3 modes to do this, so this is why in Windows you typically have to add a USB driver in order to send audio over USB interfaces, especially in async mode. Microsoft just hasn't provided this in earlier releases of their OS.

 

When an analog audio signal is digitized, it is "sampled" at a predefined rate. I.e., a quick peek is taken to see what the voltage of the analog signal is and that voltage is turned into a binary number. This is done at the predetermined sample rate. For a normal CD, a sample is 1 byte (8 bits) wide to give a number from 0-255 representing the analog voltage from 0-100%. Since there are 2 channels for stereo, there must be an additional byte for the other channel. Therefore, on a CD the sample size is 16bits. The samples are taken at a rate of 44.1kHz. This is really the minimum sample rate that are used for music since it will pass a 22kHz bandwidth (a person can typically hear from around 10Hz to 17kHz so 22kHz is plenty). The file that this data is stored in is typically labeled as 16/44.1kHz to represent the sample size and the sample rate. To convert it back to analog, you need a DAC that can convert 16/44.1kHz data.

 

If you double the sample rate (e.g., 16/88.2kHz) the data file will be twice as big and have to be played back twice as fast. 

 

As far as your current software goes, there will be a default output rate - usually 44.1kHz. Changing this is usually a manual operation by default of the operating system. If you have a mix of files with different data rates, you will have to manually change the rate being output by your computer to match that of the audio file each time. If you have nothing but uncompressed rips of CDs, that's great because their sample rate matches the normal default of the software (16/44.1kHz). If you attempt to play (i.e. output) a data file that is constructed for a different sample rate than the PC configuration, there is a problem that must be dealt with. 

 

If the sample rate of the audio file you request to be played is different than the current setting of the PC, the PC will correct this by mathematically converting the contents of the digital file to match the sampling rate that the PC has been configured to output. This is called Up-sampling or Down-sampling depending on whether the original file was based on a lower (e.g., .mp3 files) or higher (e.g., hi-rez files from HDtracks.com) sample rate respectively. This process basically tends to modify and add or delete data sample values based on estimates of what the algorithm thinks would have really existed if the original data had been sampled at the rate the PC wants to output--which always tends to add distortion and sound that was never in the original, which is the reason that this solution usually is not preferred.

 

Another solution is that some third party software (I use "Bitperfect" on my iMac) will actually look at the proper sample rate of the file, and then will automatically command the PC to change its output sample rate to match that of the audio file so the file is played at its native rate and unmodified.

 

So, if you never do anything to alter the default sample rate of your PC, it won't change and you will always see that default output value (probably 44.1kHz) displayed on your DAC. If you have any Hi-resolution files (such as those sold at HDtracks.com), you are losing any benefit of having them since the PC will down convert them first in order to send them out as 44.1kHz.

 

Anyway, hope this helps you understand a bit more of what you are seeing.

post #5316 of 10479

are you using ASIO/WASAPI/KS ? :)

post #5317 of 10479

Hi,

 

Thanks wisemanja for all the information. 

 

I spent a couple of hours configuring my OS today and now my DAC match my source when I play a file. Basically in linux it's pulseaudio who up or down sample the audio. I have setup a player that bypass pulseaudio once it's launched and it suspend pulseaudio and connect directly to the hardware (with Alsa). I have also enabled a kernel module to allow realtime synchronisation, so it prevent pulseaudio to produce any jittering when the computer is busy doing other task.

 

I have done lot of test with my new setup and I can confirm the sound is spectacular and I now see the number changing on my DAC :)

post #5318 of 10479

^you guys have probably forgotten more than I know......

post #5319 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmorneau View Post

Hi,

 

Thanks wisemanja for all the information. 

 

I spent a couple of hours configuring my OS today and now my DAC match my source when I play a file. Basically in linux it's pulseaudio who up or down sample the audio. I have setup a player that bypass pulseaudio once it's launched and it suspend pulseaudio and connect directly to the hardware (with Alsa). I have also enabled a kernel module to allow realtime synchronisation, so it prevent pulseaudio to produce any jittering when the computer is busy doing other task.

 

I have done lot of test with my new setup and I can confirm the sound is spectacular and I now see the number changing on my DAC :)

Excellant! Glad to see you got it figured out.smily_headphones1.gif

post #5320 of 10479

I have not figured everything out yet... I just plugged my old DT880 03, and geez, they sound way better then before. They sound even better then my T1 on some track. I think I need to sleep, bit sad to see an old set perform like that... They sound better in the upper end, the bass is a bit deeper too (a bit slower then the T1) but they sound more musical.

 

Okay, the T1 are more precise, but I think I still prefer the sound of my old DT880. I will keep rotating between both set.

 

Sarah Mclachlan - Angel sound better on the DT880 03

Gipsy - Black Violin sound better on the T1

post #5321 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmorneau View Post

I have not figured everything out yet... I just plugged my old DT880 03, and geez, they sound way better then before. They sound even better then my T1 on some track. I think I need to sleep, bit sad to see an old set perform like that... They sound better in the upper end, the bass is a bit deeper too (a bit slower then the T1) but they sound more musical.

 

Okay, the T1 are more precise, but I think I still prefer the sound of my old DT880. I will keep rotating between both set.

 

Sarah Mclachlan - Angel sound better on the DT880 03

Gipsy - Black Violin sound better on the T1

 

Which DAC and amp?

post #5322 of 10479

I just had a really interesting experience with a USB cable.

 

I should add that I was sceptical about a USB cable making significant difference, but it completely transformed the sound on the T1s driven by an Audio-gd NFB-5.2 DAC/amp - I heard details that were previously missing / shrouded and it smoothed out the overall presentation so that it was somehow more detailed and more relaxed / smoother all at the same time.

 

The cable in question is the Chord SilverPlus USB and I was comparing it to a generic USB cable (probably from a printer) - I initially didn't expect any change, then thought maybe there was a slight change as the track began, but as it continued I kept hearing more and more detail that was just plain "missing" from the generic USB!! I can't explain it and didn't expect it, but it definitely tames the top end on the NFB-5.2 and actually makes it a really nice pairing with the T1s which previously it wasn't.

post #5323 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post

I just had a really interesting experience with a USB cable.

 

I should add that I was sceptical about a USB cable making significant difference, but it completely transformed the sound on the T1s driven by an Audio-gd NFB-5.2 DAC/amp - I heard details that were previously missing / shrouded and it smoothed out the overall presentation so that it was somehow more detailed and more relaxed / smoother all at the same time.

 

The cable in question is the Chord SilverPlus USB and I was comparing it to a generic USB cable (probably from a printer) - I initially didn't expect any change, then thought maybe there was a slight change as the track began, but as it continued I kept hearing more and more detail that was just plain "missing" from the generic USB!! I can't explain it and didn't expect it, but it definitely tames the top end on the NFB-5.2 and actually makes it a really nice pairing with the T1s which previously it wasn't.

 

I can't really understand how a different usb cable would make a difference, but then again I didn't believe DACs made any difference until recently...so who knows. 

post #5324 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

I can't really understand how a different usb cable would make a difference, but then again I didn't believe DACs made any difference until recently...so who knows. 
I didn't believe it either!
post #5325 of 10479

Same here, I purchased a Ref 5, after much consideration never heard any major difference compared to the intergrated NFB 5.32 dac, so I sold it off.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post

I just had a really interesting experience with a USB cable.

 

I should add that I was sceptical about a USB cable making significant difference, but it completely transformed the sound on the T1s driven by an Audio-gd NFB-5.2 DAC/amp - I heard details that were previously missing / shrouded and it smoothed out the overall presentation so that it was somehow more detailed and more relaxed / smoother all at the same time.

 

The cable in question is the Chord SilverPlus USB and I was comparing it to a generic USB cable (probably from a printer) - I initially didn't expect any change, then thought maybe there was a slight change as the track began, but as it continued I kept hearing more and more detail that was just plain "missing" from the generic USB!! I can't explain it and didn't expect it, but it definitely tames the top end on the NFB-5.2 and actually makes it a really nice pairing with the T1s which previously it wasn't.

 

I was offered a higher end USB cable when I got my NFB 5.32 way back at addicted to audio, and after a listen between the Generic and it, I couldn't hear anything personally. I have the T1's and even thought that the T1 was pretty impressively detailed on it and the treble was definitely brighter with that spike but never all that bad. Only prefer the Soloist all round for all my phones, T1 a little less bright to my ears (might be expectation bias). WA7 very nice due to tube's inherent distortion, even if not as clear as SS.

 

Maybe the old USB cable you have was a dud? Is that even possible?


Edited by Leliana - 9/1/13 at 3:13am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread