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The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 329

post #4921 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by avl06 View Post

Any chance you can give some impressions of what makes the synergy so compelling?  I enjoy the T1 through the Violectric V200 but these sorts of comment always make me wonder what I may be missing out on...

It probably relates to the crossfeed implemented in those amps. The T1 sounds very captivating with it. Beyer's own A1 amp also has crossfeed.

post #4922 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post

It probably relates to the crossfeed implemented in those amps. The T1 sounds very captivating with it. Beyer's own A1 amp also has crossfeed.

 

Is there Any crossfeed level adjusment in A1 ? I don't see anything about crossfeed in A1 description at beyerdynamic .

 

With a SPL Phonitor it's pretty obvious but with A1 confused.gif


Edited by HaVoC-28 - 7/26/13 at 9:46am
post #4923 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaVoC-28 View Post

 

Yeah i agree headphones/speackers do most of the thing , it's not like you are without amp . With an m-stage and EF-1 will bring most of what T1 as to offer , some amps can improve the thing a bit , but it's more user getting somthing that suit their tastes than real improvements .

 

Totally agree and I feel confident my amps will at least be sufficient for the time being if not totally satisfactory. We'll see!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Szadzik View Post

 

meier-audio.de, check the details there.

 

I know, thanks!

post #4924 of 7925
lol those drive tubes i mentioned with rca 6as7g are pretty bassy warm and fun, not as detailed as the other combinations though, but the t1s have tons of bass with that combo, very full sound
post #4925 of 7925

Interesting, today I was listening to my T1's through a pair of loudspeakers.  Plugged into an audio/video control receiver, I had no trouble driving or getting volume out of the headphones.  When plugging in a lower impedance headphone (I used the sennheiser amperior) the volume was actually louder on the T1's.  The bass impact was also a lot greater than what I was getting out of my E09k desktop amp.

 

I doubt the equipment I used would be considered "audiophile" but I was still surprised that I was able to drive the headphones without a dedicated amp.

post #4926 of 7925

through a pair of loudspeakers, or out of the receiver? 

 

maybe T1's got louder cause the high output impedance some receivers have works better for them or something?

post #4927 of 7925

The headphones are plugged into the receiver, and the loudspeakers are connected to the receiver.

post #4928 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpitxFire22 View Post

Interesting, today I was listening to my T1's through a pair of loudspeakers.  Plugged into an audio/video control receiver, I had no trouble driving or getting volume out of the headphones.  When plugging in a lower impedance headphone (I used the sennheiser amperior) the volume was actually louder on the T1's.  The bass impact was also a lot greater than what I was getting out of my E09k desktop amp.

 

I doubt the equipment I used would be considered "audiophile" but I was still surprised that I was able to drive the headphones without a dedicated amp.

Have a look at posting:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/1290#post_9639003

to see how output impedance of an amp can affect frequency response and signal level.

 

Let suppose the internal signal generated by your amp is 10 volts. If the impedance of the amp is 50 ohms and your headphones impedance is 50 ohms, the 10 volt signal will split evenly across the two impedances and the headphones will only get half of it (i.e., 10volt * (50/50) ohms = 5 volts). Now the mid bass of the T1 have an impedances of 1400 ohms. That means the 10 volt signal from the amp will produce 10volt * ((1400 - 50)/1400) or about 9.6 volts across the T1 headphones. So, 5 volts across the low impedance and 9.6 volts across the T1---which do you think would be louder?

 

It's not just having enough voltage to drive the headphones, it's enough voltage with a low output impedance. You say that you got extra bass. Well that is to be expected since the impedance curve in the bass on the T1s is very high (1450 ohms) meaning it is boosted. However, since the upper mid range and treble are down at 650 ohms, those frequency ranges are going to have a significant reduction in signal available to them. I didn't hear you raving about any pristine clarity or brilliance when you were seeing the bass boost smile.gif

 

- Jeff


Edited by wisemanja - 7/26/13 at 7:06pm
post #4929 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisemanja View Post

Have a look at posting:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/1290#post_9639003

to see how output impedance of an amp can affect frequency response and signal level.

 

Let suppose the internal signal generated by your amp is 10 volts. If the impedance of the amp is 50 ohms and your headphones impedance is 50 ohms, the 10 volt signal will split evenly across the two impedances and the headphones will only get half of it (i.e., 10volt * (50/50) ohms = 5 volts). Now the mid bass of the T1 have an impedances of 1400 ohms. That means the 10 volt signal from the amp will produce 10volt * ((1400 - 50)/1400) or about 9.6 volts across the T1 headphones. So, 5 volts across the low impedance and 9.6 volts across the T1---which do you think would be louder?

 

It's not just having enough voltage to drive the headphones, it's enough voltage with a low output impedance. You say that you got extra bass. Well that is to be expected since the impedance curve in the bass on the T1s is very high (1450 ohms) meaning it is boosted. However, since the upper mid range and treble are down at 650 ohms, those frequency ranges are going to have a significant reduction in signal available to them. I didn't hear you raving about any pristine clarity or brilliance when you were seeing the bass boost smile.gif

 

- Jeff

Nice post again jeff. How are you T1's treating you? Are you using the A1, HDVD800 or mier amp i cant quiet remember? you thinking of getting any new amps in the future? Also do you prefer solid state to tube? have you heard the T1's tubed? 

post #4930 of 7925

I am really liking them. I have been using the Sennheiser HDVD800 and in have discovered that the tuning that they did to tame some of the treble on the HD800 has also helped a bit on the T1 for the same reasons.

 

The only things that I was concerned about and have later confirmed on the T1s are what many have found. First you need a quality amp in order to hear what it can do. It can really sound poorly on lesser amps and revealing to their shortcomings. Secondly, there is a bright boost in the treble that can be a nuisance at times depending on circumstances. The HDVD800's output impedance seems to reduce this issue a bit as I don't find it a problem most of the time. Usually, it is very pleasant to listen too and the fast treble helps to give reasonable focus if the information is in the signal. However, some recordings with too many "S"s and close mic'ing or too much boost in the treble can become a bit shrill. However, the T1 do so many things so well, I'm not ready to give up on them.

 

I understand why tubed amps could be good with this but I've preferred to go with solid state for several reasons. Of course, with that selection you have to have really well voiced amps but they do exist if you look for them. I prefer to have as neutral an amp as possible and transducers to match. However, What I am finding with headphones is that when they are engineered, it must be very difficult to produce phones with really flat frequency response and fast decay, because most of them that I have seen just don't. redface.gif The need to provide a notch in the frequency response in the 6-8KHz region to avoid the inner ear canal resonance issue as well must be a significant challange. So it is no wonder so much attention to amp synergy with a particular set of phones is of major interest on the forums.

 

Probably no new amps for me in the near future as the main thing was just to be able to listen again, and it's been GREAT smile.gif, and I have used all my money anyway since I'm currently unemployed mad.gif. However, I'm very tempted, and will likely proceed, to build an adapter with resistors to allow me to simulate a 100 ohm output impedance to see how well it works in taming the T1 treble issue. If this works as well as I'm hoping, I think that I might be more tempted to look at something like a Conductor or even a Naim DAC-V1 since It has a lot more utility than the HDVD800 does. For my current application I really want an all-in-one type combo. If it weren't for that, I'd just look at adding a better external DAC eventually because I think the T1 and HDVD800 amp section would scale with it.

 

Of course without a job, you got no money, and with no money, you can only listen to music. Well, maybe that's not so bad but trying out new things and comparing stuff was always part of the fun!

 

- Jeff


Edited by wisemanja - 7/26/13 at 10:23pm
post #4931 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by avl06 View Post

Any chance you can give some impressions of what makes the synergy so compelling?  I enjoy the T1 through the Violectric V200 but these sorts of comment always make me wonder what I may be missing out on...

 

Jan tunes his amps specifically for Beyers. I believe V200 should not be far behind Classic,, if at all.

 

Natural sound without coloration is what I am after.

post #4932 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpitxFire22 View Post

Interesting, today I was listening to my T1's through a pair of loudspeakers.  Plugged into an audio/video control receiver, I had no trouble driving or getting volume out of the headphones.  When plugging in a lower impedance headphone (I used the sennheiser amperior) the volume was actually louder on the T1's.  The bass impact was also a lot greater than what I was getting out of my E09k desktop amp.

 

I doubt the equipment I used would be considered "audiophile" but I was still surprised that I was able to drive the headphones without a dedicated amp.

 

Achieving high volume level does not mean driviing headpghones properly, two completely different things.

post #4933 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Szadzik View Post

 

Jan tunes his amps specifically for Beyers. I believe V200 should not be far behind Classic,, if at all.

 

Natural sound without coloration is what I am after.

 

Or even better depending on users preferences ^^

post #4934 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisemanja View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

I am really liking them. I have been using the Sennheiser HDVD800 and in have discovered that the tuning that they did to tame some of the treble on the HD800 has also helped a bit on the T1 for the same reasons.

 

The only things that I was concerned about and have later confirmed on the T1s are what many have found. First you need a quality amp in order to hear what it can do. It can really sound poorly on lesser amps and revealing to their shortcomings. Secondly, there is a bright boost in the treble that can be a nuisance at times depending on circumstances. The HDVD800's output impedance seems to reduce this issue a bit as I don't find it a problem most of the time. Usually, it is very pleasant to listen too and the fast treble helps to give reasonable focus if the information is in the signal. However, some recordings with too many "S"s and close mic'ing or too much boost in the treble can become a bit shrill. However, the T1 do so many things so well, I'm not ready to give up on them.

 

I understand why tubed amps could be good with this but I've preferred to go with solid state for several reasons. Of course, with that selection you have to have really well voiced amps but they do exist if you look for them. I prefer to have as neutral an amp as possible and transducers to match. However, What I am finding with headphones is that when they are engineered, it must be very difficult to produce phones with really flat frequency response and fast decay, because most of them that I have seen just don't. redface.gif The need to provide a notch in the frequency response in the 6-8KHz region to avoid the inner ear canal resonance issue as well must be a significant challange. So it is no wonder so much attention to amp synergy with a particular set of phones is of major interest on the forums.

 

Probably no new amps for me in the near future as the main thing was just to be able to listen again, and it's been GREAT smile.gif, and I have used all my money anyway since I'm currently unemployed mad.gif. However, I'm very tempted, and will likely proceed, to build an adapter with resistors to allow me to simulate a 100 ohm output impedance to see how well it works in taming the T1 treble issue. If this works as well as I'm hoping, I think that I might be more tempted to look at something like a Conductor or even a Naim DAC-V1 since It has a lot more utility than the HDVD800 does. For my current application I really want an all-in-one type combo. If it weren't for that, I'd just look at adding a better external DAC eventually because I think the T1 and HDVD800 amp section would scale with it.

 

 

 

Of course without a job, you got no money, and with no money, you can only listen to music. Well, maybe that's not so bad but trying out new things and comparing stuff was always part of the fun!

 

- Jeff

You should try Zombie_X's damping mod, its cheap and may be very effective in what you're looking for.

post #4935 of 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisemanja View Post

I am really liking them. I have been using the Sennheiser HDVD800 and in have discovered that the tuning that they did to tame some of the treble on the HD800 has also helped a bit on the T1 for the same reasons.

 

The only things that I was concerned about and have later confirmed on the T1s are what many have found. First you need a quality amp in order to hear what it can do. It can really sound poorly on lesser amps and revealing to their shortcomings. Secondly, there is a bright boost in the treble that can be a nuisance at times depending on circumstances. The HDVD800's output impedance seems to reduce this issue a bit as I don't find it a problem most of the time. Usually, it is very pleasant to listen too and the fast treble helps to give reasonable focus if the information is in the signal. However, some recordings with too many "S"s and close mic'ing or too much boost in the treble can become a bit shrill. However, the T1 do so many things so well, I'm not ready to give up on them.

 

I understand why tubed amps could be good with this but I've preferred to go with solid state for several reasons. Of course, with that selection you have to have really well voiced amps but they do exist if you look for them. I prefer to have as neutral an amp as possible and transducers to match. However, What I am finding with headphones is that when they are engineered, it must be very difficult to produce phones with really flat frequency response and fast decay, because most of them that I have seen just don't. redface.gif The need to provide a notch in the frequency response in the 6-8KHz region to avoid the inner ear canal resonance issue as well must be a significant challange. So it is no wonder so much attention to amp synergy with a particular set of phones is of major interest on the forums.

 

Probably no new amps for me in the near future as the main thing was just to be able to listen again, and it's been GREAT smile.gif, and I have used all my money anyway since I'm currently unemployed mad.gif. However, I'm very tempted, and will likely proceed, to build an adapter with resistors to allow me to simulate a 100 ohm output impedance to see how well it works in taming the T1 treble issue. If this works as well as I'm hoping, I think that I might be more tempted to look at something like a Conductor or even a Naim DAC-V1 since It has a lot more utility than the HDVD800 does. For my current application I really want an all-in-one type combo. If it weren't for that, I'd just look at adding a better external DAC eventually because I think the T1 and HDVD800 amp section would scale with it.

 

Of course without a job, you got no money, and with no money, you can only listen to music. Well, maybe that's not so bad but trying out new things and comparing stuff was always part of the fun!

 

- Jeff

let me know how you get on with that adapter. its sounds really interesting. I am in the process of purchasing some really dark and bottom heavy tubes for the WA2/T1 combo. I have detail and elegance with the 5998 and 7308 but for older recording's like The platters, Louis Prima and Sam Cooke i have decided to go the dark tube route. 

 

Could you PM me some info about your "gone but not forgotten" stereo rig? Maybe some pics?

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