Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 291

post #4351 of 8221
Quote:
Originally Posted by okw3188 View Post

Checking in with T1 (s/n : 11157) with WA2, simply loving it, mainly on classical music with my Mytek 192DACo2smile.gif Now, I have a problem, what to do with my LCD3confused_face_2.gif

 

eek.gif

 

I know this is a T1 thread, and I absolutely love my T1s.  However, not more than my LCD-3s biggrin.gif  

 

HE-6

HD800

LCD-3

T1

TH-900

 

Also - why are folks comparing the T1s to the LCD-2s and not the LCD-3s.  IMO the T1s smash the LCD-2sL3000.gif


Edited by preproman - 5/26/13 at 7:44pm
post #4352 of 8221
Quote:
Originally Posted by okw3188 View Post

Yeap, it is a new LCD3, been using it, less than 3 months and out of sudden, the left side fails. Now, my LCD3 is on its way back to them for further checking.

Ask them to thoroughly check the other driver while it's there - a friend of mine near Sydney waited seven weeks for his LCD-3 to make the round-trip, only to have the other side of his LCD-3 fail three days later! He is now three weeks into another seven-week repair - all under warranty, but wow!
post #4353 of 8221

Hi there!

 

My first post at Head-Fi :-) In the discussions on impedance here, there are a few thoughts that I had which might be of interest to some.

 

First of all, Impedance is not the same as resistance, although resistance is part of it. It is also a function of frequency and some other things (e.g., the impedance can be purely resistive, capacitive, inductive, or a combination). The multimeters (which contain the ohmmeter function) that are being suggested here only measure pure resistance at 0Hz. It you want to know what the impedance of some phones are over the audio frequency range that they'll be used at, you need a far more expensive meter anywhere from some $300 and up to do it with. Using a simple multimeter isn't going to give you quite what you are looking for.

 

Or you could go to HeadRoom's web site and look it up. For example, you can see the impedance variations for the HD800 at:

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=4061&scale=30

 

(Unfortunately, even though it's listed in their huge collection of phone-set data, they don't seem to have the data for the T1 online. I've been meaning to ask them about that)

 

Secondly, just like with speakers, phones spec'ed as having a given impedance of, say "X" ohms, might NEVER be "X" ohms across their entire frequency range! The value specific for a given set of phones is only the NOMINAL value. The example just given above of the HD800 phones shows that their impedance around 100-200 Hz is nearly 600 ohms and then drops to around 350 ohms in the 1-6 KHz region, then heading up above that further up the spectrum. So what would they be spec'ed as? (usually somewhere around the lowest values on the chart).

 

Some exotic speakers rated as 8 ohms may have impedance peaks over 30k ohms in the 10KHz region. What's worst, there can be frequency ranges where the impedance is very capacitative. If you hook a cheap amplifier that can't handle those capacitances up to those speakers, the amp can silently burn itself up in seconds!

 

So the idea is to get a pair of earpieces that match in impedance across the same frequency range *AND* have the same frequency response curve as well. If the impedance curves don't match, then the frequency response curves won't align even if the are a similar shape. This is further exacerbated if their frequency response curves are different shapes as well.

 

This is the essence of what was discussed in the "T1 Channel imbalance (and Beyer Tesla headphone variance issues)" thread. Examples of actual comparisons are given there.


Edited by wisemanja - 5/26/13 at 8:46pm
post #4354 of 8221

Now THAT was an awesome first post!   You'd better leave it at that - you can only go downhill from here!   biggrin.gif

 

Seriously - I enjoyed reading this.

 

Thank you, and welcome!

 

Mike

 

A breath of fresh air... (Click to show)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisemanja View Post

Hi there!

 

My first post at Head-Fi :-) In the discussions on impedance here, there are a few thoughts that I had which might be of interest to some.

 

First of all, Impedance is not the same as resistance, although resistance is part of it. It is also a function of frequency and some other things (e.g., the impedance can be purely resistive, capacitive, inductive, or a combination). The multimeters (which contain the ohmmeter function) that are being suggested here only measure pure resistance at 0Hz. It you want to know what the impedance of some phones are over the audio frequency range that they'll be used at, you need a far more expensive meter anywhere from some $300 and up to do it with. Using a simple multimeter isn't going to give you quite what you are looking for.

 

Or you could go to HeadRoom's web site and look it up. For example, you can see the impedance variations for the HD800 at:

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=4061&scale=30

 

(Unfortunately, even though it's listed in their huge collection of phone-set data, they don't seem to have the data for the T1 online. I've been meaning to ask them about that)

 

Secondly, just like with speakers, phones spec'ed as having a given impedance of, say "X" ohms, might NEVER be "X" ohms across their entire frequency range! The value specific for a given set of phones is only the NOMINAL value. The example just given above of the HD800 phones shows that their impedance around 100-200 Hz is nearly 600 ohms and then drops to around 350 ohms in the 1-6 KHz region, then heading up above that further up the spectrum. So what would they be spec'ed as? (usually somewhere around the lowest values on the chart).

 

Some exotic speakers rated as 8 ohms may have impedance peaks over 30k ohms in the 10KHz region. What's worst, there can be frequency ranges where the impedance is very capacitative. If you hook a cheap amplifier that can't handle those capacitances up to those speakers, the amp can silently burn itself up in seconds!

 

So the idea is to get a pair of earpieces that match in impedance across the same frequency range *AND* have the same frequency response curve as well. If the impedance curves don't match, then the frequency response curves won't align even if the are a similar shape. This is further exacerbated if their frequency response curves are different shapes as well.

 

This is the essence of what was discussed in the "T1 Channel imbalance (and Beyer Tesla headphone variance issues)" thread. Examples of actual comparisons are given there.

 

 

 

post #4355 of 8221
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post

Now THAT was an awesome first post!   You'd better leave it at that - you can only go downhill from here!   biggrin.gif

 

Seriously - I enjoyed reading this.

 

Thank you, and welcome!

 

Mike

 

Thanks for the kind words! 

 

After reading up on the local policies I was afraid that I might be encroaching on the "Wiki" technical area. I've been watching the group for a couple of weeks now but in following the recent discussions, I just didn't want anyone going out and spending money on some meter that might not give them the information that they want--so I signed up.

 

I was actually into audio very much years ago (I've got years of postings all over rec.audio.high-end. My cubicle buddy just happened to be one of their moderators) but after the telecomm bust in 2001, I wasn't really gainfully employed for nearly 4 years. We actually lived off of all my audio equipment assets (e.g., a single pair of used Cardas Golden Reference interconnects can pay your mortgage for a couple of months :-)

 

When it was all over I didn't have much of anything left. Well recently I finally got a 10 year plan of putting all of my some 130 albums into iTunes (uncompressed) accomplished in about 4 days. Now I want to listen to them with quality sound and I've chosen the T1 as my starting point. I placed an order with the folks at HeadRoom in Montana which I'm still in the process of refining. I've had them reterminate the T1 with a 4-pin XLR and I'm waiting for the arrival of a new Sennheiser HDVA800. I'm going to have them use it for a personal review and also compare the balanced T1 with a Balanced HD800 and discuss it with me before shipping it.

 

I'm guessing that if Sennheiser has been really looking at the HD800 and seriously considering what they hear in the field in terms of what they wanted to achieve on this new DAC/amp combo, they may want to deal with the slightly bright aspect of the HD800s, and if they do so, it might also work very well for the T1. So this is my current approach to re-entering audiophile grade music field :-)

post #4356 of 8221
+1 to Mike's post. An excellent first post wisemanja. There is a good wiki on head-fi about the difference between resistance and impedance, but you covered all the points even more succinctly.

I was going to post about my resistively very well-matched drivers in my 42xx T1 "FWIW", but there hardly seems much point now wink.gif

Glad to hear you're back into audio - hope you enjoy your T1/HDVA800 combo.
post #4357 of 8221

I just sampled BB King tracks called "Three O'Clock Blues" I swear to God this is the worst display of distortion I heard from a pair of headphones. BB King's voice is all distorted from 2:00 to 2:55. The duet with Eric Clapton places the two singers at the left and right stage. Eric's voice coming from the left sounds great but BB's voice from the right sounds recessed and all distorted. I am gonna #$%%^  those ******** that sold me this T1. Beyer has been known to have mismatched drivers in their high end models. This is incredibly poor display of trust for the customers who are willing to pay high end price. mad.gif

 

Don't get me wrong. I love what T1 has given me in terms of listening pleasure with 90% of the tracks I have in my library but these few sound incredibly awful, no, sorry: DISASTROUS!, coming from a $1,300 headphones


Edited by zackzack - 5/26/13 at 10:56pm
post #4358 of 8221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post


Just to make it clear, I very much like them after applying dampening. In stock form they where (after some extended listening and comparison) just worse version of my Manufaktur DT880.

For the record I have 59XX serial.

And btw, I did have my share of problems of severely mismatched non tesla drivers with Beyer, DT770 600Ohm for instance was replaced three times.

 

And why is that a problem with bringing up your likings or dislikings about particular phones, I couldn't live with LCD-2 either, too uncomfortable and wooly to my taste.

 

1. This thread is an APPRECIATION thread. 

2. If yuo do not like a pair of headphones, it is the worst idea to try to change them so you like them. Sell them and get something you like.

post #4359 of 8221
^ with respect, I think Andrew_WOT has earned the right to his T1s. He paid his dues with an excellent contribution to the T1 dampening thread.

In general, I agree you Szadzik, in the sense I believe in not changing things from stock...not, that is, if one wishes to offer meaningful reviews and impressions, or comparisons with other gear. However, this principle seems defeated by the near certainty we all hear differently and a degree of uncertainty around our equipment even when it's the same model off the same production line. Our gear is 'consumer grade', not laboratory grade; and gear that is lab grade requires constant recalibration!

In this sense, it's interesting to note head-fi seems to have a quite well-established tradition of changing things: the above-mentioned T1 dampening thread; Anaxilus' HD800 mod; and purrin's LCD3 'TP' mod which endured the short time until Audez'e decided they did indeed need to 'fix' their phone.

So Andrew_WOT is hardly being a renegade here!
post #4360 of 8221
I haven't tested my T1 with the kinds of tracks you highlighted yet. I think perhaps in about 15 hours I will get a chance.

Meantime, it does sound like you may have a problem with your pair and you should get it tested - it is still under warranty I hope?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zackzack View Post

I just sampled BB King tracks called "Three O'Clock Blues" I swear to God this is the worst display of distortion I heard from a pair of headphones. BB King's voice is all distorted from 2:00 to 2:55. The duet with Eric Clapton places the two singers at the left and right stage. Eric's voice coming from the left sounds great but BB's voice from the right sounds recessed and all distorted.
post #4361 of 8221
What you guy think of this mod
T1 cable shield mod
post #4362 of 8221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiDee View Post

I haven't tested my T1 with the kinds of tracks you highlighted yet. I think perhaps in about 15 hours I will get a chance.

Meantime, it does sound like you may have a problem with your pair and you should get it tested - it is still under warranty I hope?

Yes, still under warranty. But I prefer not to jump into conclusions

post #4363 of 8221
Quote:
Originally Posted by zackzack View Post

I just sampled BB King tracks called "Three O'Clock Blues" I swear to God this is the worst display of distortion I heard from a pair of headphones. BB King's voice is all distorted from 2:00 to 2:55. The duet with Eric Clapton places the two singers at the left and right stage. Eric's voice coming from the left sounds great but BB's voice from the right sounds recessed and all distorted. I am gonna #$%%^  those ******** that sold me this T1. Beyer has been known to have mismatched drivers in their high end models. This is incredibly poor display of trust for the customers who are willing to pay high end price. mad.gif

 

Don't get me wrong. I love what T1 has given me in terms of listening pleasure with 90% of the tracks I have in my library but these few sound incredibly awful, no, sorry: DISASTROUS!, coming from a $1,300 headphones

 

Where did you get this teack from - I would like to test it out.  Did you download it?

post #4364 of 8221

Wisemanja,

 

Your story of cannibalizing your system to pay the bills if fascinating.  redface.gif

 

But you're certainly jumping back in with a vengeance!   I'm looking forward to your T1 impressions with the HDVD 800.  

 

Moving very slowly, I've not yet found the right DAC/amp combo for my T1 and I have too much "faith" in the T1 to just sell it.

 

Mike

post #4365 of 8221

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

Where did you get this teack from - I would like to test it out.  Did you download it?

 

BB King & Eric Clapton Riding with the King

It's a lossless rip from CD

I can PM you the file if you want

 

Like I said, the T1 could be very revealing of poor recording.

My AKG K550 doesn't have the resolving power of T1

but it doesn't pick up the problem I mentioned above (the iTunes piano tracks).

But the BB King track could be poorly encoded. I tried

with my B&W 600 speakers so I am using a different

chain of system, MacBook>Apple TV>Denon>B&W

And the distortion is there but much less apparent than my T1. 

The T1 is a very detailed headphones. It is a terrible blessing.


Edited by zackzack - 5/27/13 at 7:31am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread