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The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 240

post #3586 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnupiima View Post

I would also like some thoughts on O2 with the T1s. The whole objective thing - and you know. That 'not driving them to their full capabilities' sounds fishy at least. If it gets loud enough, it drives them well. Basically that's what amps are for.  -From the objective point of view of course!

 

It drives them perfectly fine. No different than the Violectric V200, Concerto etc. Not to say the V200 doesn't drive the T1's louder than the O2, but you can drive the T1 to dangerously ear piercing levels on both amps even on low gain settings, so that extra volume is all but useless. I was going to do a big V200 vs O2 write up but didn't bother in the end in order not to too heavily stir the pot. Bottom line, the O2 can hang with the best of them. It's not in the least bit a poorer sound, just an ever so slightly different sound. But that difference is nothing to do with technical capability and more to do with colourisation in other amps/equipment.


Edited by Naim.F.C - 12/27/12 at 6:52am
post #3587 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naim.F.C View Post

 

It drives them perfectly fine. No different than the Violectric V200, Concerto etc. Not to say the V200 doesn't drive the T1's louder than the O2, but you can drive the T1 to dangerously ear piercing levels on both amps even on low gain settings, so that extra volume is all but useless. I was going to do a big V200 vs O2 write up but didn't bother in the end in order not to too heavily stir the pot. Bottom line, the O2 can hang with the best of them. It's not in the least bit a poorer sound, just an ever so slightly different sound. But that difference is nothing to do with technical capability and more to do with colourisation in other amps/equipment.

Naim, do you also mind pitching in on the differences of tube amplifiers vs o2 if you have experiences with them?

Thanks.

post #3588 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naim.F.C View Post

 

It drives them perfectly fine. No different than the Violectric V200, Concerto etc

Thank you.

post #3589 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by gknix View Post

Naim, do you also mind pitching in on the differences of tube amplifiers vs o2 if you have experiences with them?

Thanks.

 

I don't think being a tube amp necessarily means the amp is going to be darker or smoother sounding, guess it depends on the kind of tubes used and the general set up. But most tube amps are from what I have heard, slightly fuller or more low frequency coloured than solid state counter parts. The V200 by contrast is actually a smooth sounding SS, more stereo typically tube like.

 

I don't believe that the sound differences in amps at this level are due to noise reduction, at that level even on the O2 the amount of noise is all but negligible and more importantly, in-audible. 

 

The reality is that different amps often have different colour added in different parts of the frequency to give an ever so slightly different tone. The O2 is pretty much straight neutral. The V200 by contrast seems to have a slight hump in sub bass and upper mids. I mean, we're talking fractional differences here. But it does mean you get slight more bass and detailing on certain instruments/vocals. But generally on most music, the O2 is just a touch more revealing and airy or wider sounding.

 

My honest belief is that audiophile differences are blown way out of proportion on high end equipment, and that a perfect balance of audio for all music is impossible. If you have more bass, you will lose some sound stage. If you add more highs, you will gain some, but run the risk of sounding thinner. Etc etc. Tinkering with the frequency can yield big sounding differences, but it is just that, a slight difference in the frequency, nothing more. Headphones are a little bit different because the actual technology can dictate differences, from the drivers to the actual physical housing (I've no doubt the size of the HD800's and the physical characteristics add to the huge sound stage). With amps, once you get the noise and distortion to in-audible levels, it boils down to how neutral or coloured they are dictating the differences in sound. Essentially it will boil down to personal preference. 

 

I do prefer the V200 to the O2 with the T1 (my personal preference in liking a touch of extra bass), but no where near enough to justify the price difference, seeing as how the O2 is actually more neutral (imo) and actually a fraction more revealing and wider sounding (thanks to the slightly less bass). The truth is the differences are negligible, and there purely because the V200 is ever so slightly coloured to be more fun, not because the O2 is lacking in any way what so ever.


Edited by Naim.F.C - 12/27/12 at 8:45am
post #3590 of 7895

V200 question;

 

Is this amp made with opamps in the signal path?  This sound a lot like my balanced M^3 and I'm just getting into opamp rolling to see how the sound changes.  By reading the sound characteristics of this amp, it reads like the V200 and the M^3 could sound a lot alike.

post #3591 of 7895

Hi all..I'm new to the whole high-end  headphone scene,although I have been a music lover and audiophile for well over 30 yrs. I've hopefully made some good choices to get up to speed by taking some time to do my homework. I've made the plunge by purchasing what I think will be a good match. A Meier Audio Corda Classic amp mated to the Beyerdynamic T1. I'm really looking forward to listening to old favorites in a new and interesting way and i'm glad to be here on your forum. Thanks.

 

Serial No. is 7254 (they were an open box demo pair, with very little use)
 


Edited by Capcom - 1/7/13 at 8:35am
post #3592 of 7895

Hi Headfiers.

 

I have been doing a lot of reading on Headfi and other forums about the T1 and its possible amp+dac combinations. I have narrowed it down to Woo Audio Wa2 + T1 + Burson Audio DA-160 OR Schiit Audio Bitfrost. I play most of the music through my laptop so i definitely need a DAC but wasn't able to find much information on which DAC would go well with Wa2+T1. There is much talk of which AMP would go well with T1 but whether its me or really there hasn't been much talk of a DAC to sit well with this combination. 

 

It'll be good to get some input from someone who could suggest a DAC to go well with out of the two or have had an opportunity to listen to similar combinations. DA-160 is a little bit more money than Bitfrost but if the sound really does come out to be significantly better with 160 ill go with 160. 

 

I'll be listening to classic rock, rock, electronic music and movie soundtracks most of the time. 

post #3593 of 7895

when in doubt, go with the most expensive option available to you wink.gif

 

#YOLO


Edited by Dubstep Girl - 12/27/12 at 7:06pm
post #3594 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdmanfar View Post

Hi Headfiers.

 

I have been doing a lot of reading on Headfi and other forums about the T1 and its possible amp+dac combinations. I have narrowed it down to Woo Audio Wa2 + T1 + Burson Audio DA-160 OR Schiit Audio Bitfrost. I play most of the music through my laptop so i definitely need a DAC but wasn't able to find much information on which DAC would go well with Wa2+T1. There is much talk of which AMP would go well with T1 but whether its me or really there hasn't been much talk of a DAC to sit well with this combination. 

 

It'll be good to get some input from someone who could suggest a DAC to go well with out of the two or have had an opportunity to listen to similar combinations. DA-160 is a little bit more money than Bitfrost but if the sound really does come out to be significantly better with 160 ill go with 160. 

 

I'll be listening to classic rock, rock, electronic music and movie soundtracks most of the time. 

 

It's really hard to say which DAC to get for these specific headphones. I'd say you should get the superior DAC overall. I'd search through the Bifrost thread and see if there are any comparisons to Burson products there! 

post #3595 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdmanfar View Post

Hi Headfiers. --

I will get an ODAC with a case as an upgrade to my current Icon HDP. I don't think you can go wrong at 120$ price point either.

post #3596 of 7895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capcom View Post

Hi all..I'm new to the whole high-end  headphone scene,although I have been a music lover and audiophile for well over 30 yrs. I've hopefully made some good choices to get up to speed by taking some time to do my homework. I've made the plunge by purchasing what I think will be a good match. A Meier Audio Corda Classic amp mated to the Beyerdynamic T1. I'm really looking forward to listening to old favorites in a new and interesting way and i'm glad to be here on your forum. Thanks.
 

You are certainly jumping into the high end with both feet with the T1's my friend.  I just got mine about a week ago and they are truly special.  I can't speak to your amp/T1 combination as I have no experience with the Corda's.  My T1's will primarily be used with Woo tube amps as I much prefer a warmer sound, however, I did pick up the Beyerdynamic A1 solid state amp for times when I want a more neutral sound.

 

Welcome Capcom!

post #3597 of 7895

Cross-posting an excerpt from my longer post on the Burson Soloist thread:

 

 

On the subject of LCD-2 rev.1 bass roll-off vs. Beyerdynamic T1 bass roll-off (using a DACport LX into the Soloist), white-noise volume matching the LCD-2 to the T1, I discovered that the T1 suffers a greater than 3 dB attenuation of bass energy (a loss of more than half the volume) in the mid-bass region, between 44 Hz and 80 Hz.  Have a look at these curves I charted, after taking measurements using Bink Audio test files and the JL Audio SPL meter (iPhone app):

 

 

1000

 

 

Observation:  When the T1 and LCD-2 are matched to 85.7 dB playing white noise, T1 SPL is less than half that of the LCD-2 between 55 Hz and 85 Hz (a loss of more than 3 dB).  Bass energy is slightly greater than the LCD-2 rev.1, below 44 Hz, but as much as 4.6 dB less than the LCD-2 above 44 Hz.

 

 

Adding some new material (not cross-posted):

 

1000

 

Observation:  When the T1 and LCD-2 are matched to 91.7 dB playing white noise, T1 SPL is less than half that of the LCD-2 between 50 Hz and 90 Hz (a loss of more than 3 dB across a greater range of frequencies than when volumes are matched to 85.7 dB).  At this higher overall volume, bass energy is slightly greater than the LCD-2 rev.1, below 42 Hz, but as much as 5.3 dB less than the LCD-2 above 42 Hz.

 

 

Even though the T1 actually exhibits more bass energy than the LCD-2 rev.1 below 44 Hz, when white noise volume is set to a reasonable level of 85.7 dB, as stated above, the T1 has less than half the bass energy of the LCD-2, between 55 Hz and 85 Hz - but this is right where some of the most enjoyable bass content resides!

 

Another irony, though not quantifiable, is my hunch that the LCD-2's lack of speed in the bass region actually contributes to a greater sense of bass energy than can actually be measured.  I'm conjecturing that the bloomier, woolier, less detailed bass of the LCD-2, relative to the very tight T1 bass, could actually make the LCD-2 sound as if it has more bass energy than it does.

 

Two years of listening to LCD-2 exclusively appears to have turned me into a bass-head, without really knowing it.  rolleyes.gif

 

Without question, the T1 is more balanced across the spectrum, less colored, more accurate, and more detailed than the LCD-2 rev.1.  

 

But then personal taste enters the equation...  For the time being, I'm hooked on switching between two chains, depending on bass content:  The DACmini CX > LCD-2  vs. Soloist > T1.  Selling either one of these would be tough for me, but the Soloist > T1 system comes a lot closer to being an all-purpose solution.

 

biggrin.gif

 

Mike


Edited by zilch0md - 12/28/12 at 10:28pm
post #3598 of 7895

Hey guys, since the T1's price is dipping down again on amazon I'm tempted to get a pair. I listen to a lot of instrumental, soundtrack (anime/game/movie BGM and stuff) as well as female vocals and some metal (if metal doesn't sound good that's okay). I will be using the Onkyo DAC and the Asgard on my sig to power it and don't plan to upgrade them any time soon. Is that a good idea at all? 

post #3599 of 7895

For your choice of music they're great.  However, I have no idea how it will pair with the Asgard.

post #3600 of 7895

Well as long as it doesn't sound overly bright I'm good. I care a lot about sound stage and clarity when listening to instrumentals. The HD800 is supposed to have the best sound stage of all dynamics but the bass was almost non-existent and the treble gave me headaches when I tried them. That's why I look at the T1 since I heard they are less bright and not as amp dependent.

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