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The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 162

post #2416 of 10478
Thread Starter 

To each his own my friend. Not saying you are wrong or right, just stating my opinion on the amps. It's all a matter of choice and I'm not arguing that. I'm sure you see where I am coming from with the amp. 

 

The Auditor is pretty bad with low impedance gear and ortho's. Even the easy to power LCD-2 sounds bad on it. I always found it to be better with high impedance gear. To my ears it's the best amp out there for what I need. 

 

The V200 is a lot like the LF in that it can drive almost anything with ease, say except maybe the K1000. Both are very powerful amps and are both excellent sounding. I just can't have anymore amp :(

 

Since we are talking about the LF, have you tried a K1000 on it? Also how do ortho's fair on it. When I had the test unit I did not have any ortho's on hand, except for my YH-2, which sounded great on it.

 

Oh crap I derailed the thread...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

Well then, either one of us need to have their hearing checked. tongue.gif  I thought except for the sexy gauges, the Phonitor was meh with pretty much everything (except for strangely enough the K701) and downright horrible with low impedance headphones and orthos. The LF trounced it in every category (except for those sexy gauges) to my ears.

 

Now which one is right? I'd say we both are...and we each own the right amp for ourselves.

post #2417 of 10478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

To each his own my friend. Not saying you are wrong or right, just stating my opinion on the amps. It's all a matter of choice and I'm not arguing that. I'm sure you see where I am coming from with the amp. 

 

The Auditor is pretty bad with low impedance gear and ortho's. Even the easy to power LCD-2 sounds bad on it. I always found it to be better with high impedance gear. To my ears it's the best amp out there for what I need. 

 

The V200 is a lot like the LF in that it can drive almost anything with ease, say except maybe the K1000. Both are very powerful amps and are both excellent sounding. I just can't have anymore amp :(

 

Since we are talking about the LF, have you tried a K1000 on it? Also how do ortho's fair on it. When I had the test unit I did not have any ortho's on hand, except for my YH-2, which sounded great on it.

 

Oh crap I derailed the thread...

 

 

Here are some of my thoughts compared to my other amps that I've owned (also very valid with the T1s...just to bring things back on topic smile.gif):

 

The WA22 is S-O-L-I-D and just is a beauty to look at. Even compared to the LF (which I do like as well, just doesn't have the same aesthetic...visually speaking, but that's just me). Again though, I really like the LF's looks. It does looks substantial IMO and my wife actually prefers it to the WA22. The sound is where the LF excels. I would classify the WA22 as a euphonic/musical amp. Over time (and next to my GS-1 amp) it sounded less focused. Not that it's not focused in absolute terms (its very good in this regard), just in comparison to one of the most clean sounding and transparent amps I've heard in the GS-1. The LF manages to be as clean, transparent, with laser focus and still retain musicality (though not as euphonic/musical as the WA22). Something very few (if any) amps manage to do this well.

 

The WA22 was fantastic, but it sacrificed some transparency/clarity for musicality. The GS-1 was the opposite. The LF straddles the line so very well between both that its a real keeper (especially with these Genalex Gold Lions)!

 

Previously, the WA22 was my favourite "go to" T1 amp (and along with the WA2 demolished all the other amps I've tried the T1s with), but it's now down to #2. biggrin.gif With regards to my LCD-3s, never sounded better! Heck, even my W3000ANVs (low impedance and very efficient headphones) are so good and tight with it that I'm not sure when I'll turn my GS-1 back on again.

 

Sorry, I don't have the K1000s around and nowadays, they're harder and harder to find.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 5/5/12 at 8:51pm
post #2418 of 10478

The WA22 is heavily dependent on the tubes you use. Even the 'upgraded' tubes you can get from Jack at time of purchase can be improved upon significantly, if you have the time, interest and resources to hunt through vintage familes. ive spent a year rolling around 100 + tubes on that amplifier and the differences can be incredible. The T1's do sound great with the amplifier, especially when recabled with piccilino to balanced. The piccilino removes a minor veil across the curve on the T1.

 

Never heard the LF so I can't comment.


Edited by zardon - 5/6/12 at 3:06am
post #2419 of 10478
Quote:
Originally Posted by zardon View Post

The WA22 is heavily dependent on the tubes you use. Even the 'upgraded' tubes you can get from Jack at time of purchase can be improved upon significantly, if you have the time, interest and resources to hunt through vintage familes. ive spent a year rolling around 100 + tubes on that amplifier and the differences can be incredible. The T1's do sound great with the amplifier, especially when recabled with piccilino to balanced. The piccilino removes a minor veil across the curve on the T1.

 

Never heard the LF so I can't comment.

 

Agreed on the WA22 and the tubes used. I spent almost as much on tubes for the WA22 that I did for the amp itself trying to find the best combination for my T1s, HD800s and LCD-3s. There was no one-size-fits-all tube combination for all headphones though. The LF seems to really respond to tube rolling as well. The amp sounded quite good with the stock JJ tubes, but dropping in the Gold Lions (one of my favourite 6922 tubes) really kicked things up a notch. Now, I guess I'm on a new journey of discovery with regards to finding the ideal tubes all over again. confused.gif

post #2420 of 10478
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Agreed on the WA22 and the tubes used. I spent almost as much on tubes for the WA22 that I did for the amp itself trying to find the best combination for my T1s, HD800s and LCD-3s. There was no one-size-fits-all tube combination for all headphones though. The LF seems to really respond to tube rolling as well. The amp sounded quite good with the stock JJ tubes, but dropping in the Gold Lions (one of my favourite 6922 tubes) really kicked things up a notch. Now, I guess I'm on a new journey of discovery with regards to finding the ideal tubes all over again. confused.gif

Its fun though isnt it? Although it can end up expensive!

While i still use the wa22 I moved a while ago to the ray samuels b52 and i had to learn all over again as i spent most of my time with 6080/5998/7236 and 6sn7/6sl7 families learning that different vintage familes such as mullard could 'warm' the sound while others could make it slightly more analytical. Tube selection can help 'counter' a negative trait from a phone.

Same with the b52 incidentally, there is a great gold lion 12au7 substitute, although the pair i bought are slightly microphonic. Mullard and gec tubes can warm the upper end a little, ideal for hd800 for instance.

I get a lot of enjoyment from tube rolling. I wouldnt even contemplate solid state as there is no room for adjustment.

You have some fun times ahead, although your wallet might not feel it right now smily_headphones1.gif
Edited by zardon - 5/6/12 at 10:21am
post #2421 of 10478

Would it make more sense for me to buy a DT880 - 600ohm, D5000, and SR325is OR would a T1 by itself be a better choice.

 

I listen to all kinds of music.  Would the T1 perform as good or better than a D5000 for Drum and Bass.  Same for Rock would the T1 outperform the Grado and for bands like The Cardigans and The Corrs would the T1 be the better choice over a DT880 or HD650?

 

I don't know if I want to go for only one headphone for everything or buy a group of mid-range cans.

post #2422 of 10478
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

Would it make more sense for me to buy a DT880 - 600ohm, D5000, and SR325is OR would a T1 by itself be a better choice.

 

I listen to all kinds of music.  Would the T1 perform as good or better than a D5000 for Drum and Bass.  Same for Rock would the T1 outperform the Grado and for bands like The Cardigans and The Corrs would the T1 be the better choice over a DT880 or HD650?

 

I don't know if I want to go for only one headphone for everything or buy a group of mid-range cans.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

BeyerdynamicT1Large.jpg

post #2423 of 10478
Hi brokenthumb. Thats a tough one to call. I genuinely love the t1. It isnt the best headphone in any category, but i think it is one of the most versatile headphones on the market. Im not a huge fan of the stock cable, however that is maybe just me.

It is great with all kinds of music, however it isn't the best with any genre. I would actually choose it as my 'only' headphone if i had to make a call. Behind the sony r10, as i tend to listen to acoustic, vocal and classical now most of the time.

T1 is my second favourite headphone for classic rock, behind the grado hp1000. I find the t1 more enjoyable than the hd800, even though it is weaker in a few areas.

All depends on your budget. Nothing is better than having 2 or more headphones, but it depends really on what you want at the end of the day.
post #2424 of 10478
Quote:
Originally Posted by zardon View Post

Hi brokenthumb. Thats a tough one to call. I genuinely love the t1. It isnt the best headphone in any category, but i think it is one of the most versatile headphones on the market. Im not a huge fan of the stock cable, however that is maybe just me.
It is great with all kinds of music, however it isn't the best with any genre. I would actually choose it as my 'only' headphone if i had to make a call. Behind the sony r10, as i tend to listen to acoustic, vocal and classical now most of the time.
T1 is my second favourite headphone for classic rock, behind the grado hp1000. I find the t1 more enjoyable than the hd800, even though it is weaker in a few areas.
All depends on your budget. Nothing is better than having 2 or more headphones, but it depends really on what you want at the end of the day.

 

I've been struggling over the past month between the HE-500, RS1i, LCD-2, T1, and HD800.  I almost decided to forget the entire thing and buy a group of mid-range cans instead.  I'm ready to buy but I can't make up my mind.  lol

 


I see you have all of those headphones and more!!!  The fact that you said the T1 would be your 'only' headphone out of all of those in your inventory except for the R10 is very impressive to me.  This has swayed me back toward the T1.  I hope to purchase by tomorrow.

post #2425 of 10478
What are you going to be using it with? What are you going to be listening to for the most part? What characteristics do you look for from your music?

The T1's are great when used well. They can be a poor choice in certain circumstances. They will show up poor amps and poor music making the overall experience worse than something that just pumps up the treble and bass for rockin' out.

Also keep in mind the non-sonic factors - comfort, style, re-sale (in case you aren't happy with your decision).

Is there no place to try some of them out in Georgia, ... Atlanta ...Tbilisi ?
post #2426 of 10478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudu View Post

What are you going to be using it with? What are you going to be listening to for the most part? What characteristics do you look for from your music?
The T1's are great when used well. They can be a poor choice in certain circumstances. They will show up poor amps and poor music making the overall experience worse than something that just pumps up the treble and bass for rockin' out.
Also keep in mind the non-sonic factors - comfort, style, re-sale (in case you aren't happy with your decision).
Is there no place to try some of them out in Georgia, ... Atlanta ...Tbilisi ?

 

I would be using it with the E7/E9.  I had a Burson HA-160 and didn't notice a huge difference between the E9 and the Burson with my HD650.  The Burson was too warm sounding with the HD650 and would put me to sleep.

 

I want detailed sound from top to bottom on my music, I like hearing those little bits of detail that I've never noticed before.  I like bass that hits but is also very detailed.  The K701 was detailed but didn't have enough slam for me.  The D2000 had a little too much bass for me, I felt it made the overall sound of the music too bassy.  I enjoyed the detailed highs of the K701 and the airy soundstage.  The mids is what I like best about the HD650, I also feel the HD650 has a little too much mid bass.

 

So I'm looking for K701 highs, HD650 mids, and D2000 slam/extension but with the tighter control and more texture.  The LCD-2 sounds really good also but I'm afraid of the weight and the soundstage.  I really enjoy the soundstage of the HD650 and K701.  The D2000 was too closed in for me.

 

I'm about as far as you can be from Atlanta.  I live on the edge of Florida.

post #2427 of 10478
I don't have experience with all the gear you are considering but here's my take.

I used the 880s for a few years straight out of an Asus STX and loved it. For the money, I think the 880s are fantastic.

Once I got the T1's and an amp that pairs very nicely with them, I noticed a big difference between the two. I would never cough up the wampum for the T1 if I was intending to continue using the STX - I'd happily keep the 880s and get a whole lotta ESB to go with them. However, for my tastes the T1 + the amp I have (Woo WA2) is brilliant. I don't plan on changing it any time soon, if ever. I listen to mostly classical & romantic, female vocals & early jazz. The T1's sound nicely balanced to me and have a very good sound stage for orchestral stuff. They do not have pronounce mids like some cans, but they aren't suppressed either. With an OTL amp the Beyers are incredibly musical.

The LCD's have great detail but a close, intimate sound stage. They were impressive for some music - live club recordings in particular. But they are heavy and uncomfortable and not the best for my music preferences. I found with the LCDs I was listening for the details and being impressed by the gear. With the T1's I forget about the gear and just enjoy the music - usually with a stupid smile on my face.

I just got Denons and love them to bits. They are great looking, comfy and fun! For stringed instruments they produce a fantastic sense of resonance ... really brilliant stuff. They are easy to drive too.

That said, I'd never trade my T1's (+ the WA2) for the others combined. If I had to choose it would always the T1's I keep. I have no experience with the E7/E9 though. The T1's were the headphones that made me a big believer in the importance of synergy between audio gear - and I'm still pretty skeptical about most things in the audio world. Find out how all the these cans work with your source/amp before you drop a bunch of cash.
post #2428 of 10478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudu View Post

I don't have experience with all the gear you are considering but here's my take.
I used the 880s for a few years straight out of an Asus STX and loved it. For the money, I think the 880s are fantastic.
Once I got the T1's and an amp that pairs very nicely with them, I noticed a big difference between the two. I would never cough up the wampum for the T1 if I was intending to continue using the STX - I'd happily keep the 880s and get a whole lotta ESB to go with them. However, for my tastes the T1 + the amp I have (Woo WA2) is brilliant. I don't plan on changing it any time soon, if ever. I listen to mostly classical & romantic, female vocals & early jazz. The T1's sound nicely balanced to me and have a very good sound stage for orchestral stuff. They do not have pronounce mids like some cans, but they aren't suppressed either. With an OTL amp the Beyers are incredibly musical.
The LCD's have great detail but a close, intimate sound stage. They were impressive for some music - live club recordings in particular. But they are heavy and uncomfortable and not the best for my music preferences. I found with the LCDs I was listening for the details and being impressed by the gear. With the T1's I forget about the gear and just enjoy the music - usually with a stupid smile on my face.
I just got Denons and love them to bits. They are great looking, comfy and fun! For stringed instruments they produce a fantastic sense of resonance ... really brilliant stuff. They are easy to drive too.
That said, I'd never trade my T1's (+ the WA2) for the others combined. If I had to choose it would always the T1's I keep. I have no experience with the E7/E9 though. The T1's were the headphones that made me a big believer in the importance of synergy between audio gear - and I'm still pretty skeptical about most things in the audio world. Find out how all the these cans work with your source/amp before you drop a bunch of cash.

 

While I do agree that the T1s have greater soundstaging than the LCD-2s, actually the LCD-3s have a touch more than the T1s.

post #2429 of 10478
Thread Starter 

Oh? That's interesting man. I heard the LCD-3 soundstage, sonic signature, and performance weren't that different than the LCD-2 from another member here. I would say the T1 has a much, much larger stage than the LCD-2. The LCD-2 to me is very cramped, much like that of a Grado.

 

brokenthumb,

 

the LCD-2 is going to have the K701 type highs. Even though the Rev.2 has more treble than the Rev.1, it's still very laid back. Otherwise the signature you want is there. They have ample bass with good control. Not much texture IMO but better than the D2000. The mids are my favorite aspect of this headphone. They are lush and inviting without being too rich. The treble is similar tot hat of the HD600 or HD650. Kind of somewhere in between I would say. The soundstage is quite small and not that 3D, it's very 2D without much depth or height.

 

The T1 won't have the throbbing bass you want either. The T1's bass is very controlled and tight. It's also quite neutral so you wan't have the same amount of impact but it does reach lower. The T1 has similar highs to the K701 but are much more extended and smoother. The T1's highs are far better than the K701. The midrange is pretty neutral yet has a hint of warmth. They are a lot fuller than the K701's mids and are lush in comparison to the K701's slightly anemic (recessed) mids. The soundstage will be smaller than the K701's but is better overall. The imaging is probably the best I've heard in a headphone, even compared to the HD800.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

While I do agree that the T1s have greater soundstaging than the LCD-2s, actually the LCD-3s have a touch more than the T1s.

post #2430 of 10478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

Oh? That's interesting man. I heard the LCD-3 soundstage, sonic signature, and performance weren't that different than the LCD-2 from another member here. I would say the T1 has a much, much larger stage than the LCD-2. The LCD-2 to me is very cramped, much like that of a Grado.

 

brokenthumb,

 

the LCD-2 is going to have the K701 type highs. Even though the Rev.2 has more treble than the Rev.1, it's still very laid back. Otherwise the signature you want is there. They have ample bass with good control. Not much texture IMO but better than the D2000. The mids are my favorite aspect of this headphone. They are lush and inviting without being too rich. The treble is similar tot hat of the HD600 or HD650. Kind of somewhere in between I would say. The soundstage is quite small and not that 3D, it's very 2D without much depth or height.

 

The T1 won't have the throbbing bass you want either. The T1's bass is very controlled and tight. It's also quite neutral so you wan't have the same amount of impact but it does reach lower. The T1 has similar highs to the K701 but are much more extended and smoother. The T1's highs are far better than the K701. The midrange is pretty neutral yet has a hint of warmth. They are a lot fuller than the K701's mids and are lush in comparison to the K701's slightly anemic (recessed) mids. The soundstage will be smaller than the K701's but is better overall. The imaging is probably the best I've heard in a headphone, even compared to the HD800.

 

 

Yep...clearly at least the same (T1 sound staging vs LCD-3), but methinks a slight advantage to the LCD-3s.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/a/comparisons-of-the-lcd-3-and-the-lcd-2-rev-2

 

Could also be that upstream gear was not optimal for the LCD-3s. With the Lyr, the SS between the -2 and -3 was more similar, but on my WA22 and now especially on my LF, the imaging between the -2 and -3 are as different as the LCD-2 vs. T1.

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