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The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 143

post #2131 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

 

I use my T1's for metal as they have more than enough bass. Plus the more forward midrange makes the guitars and vocals shine.

 

Something must be wrong with your pair as my T1 has more bass than the SR-225i, and certainly more then a SR-325is. I can't understand how your pair can sound so different.
 



I did some comparing, Björk's Hyperballad and random DnB internet stream. I have also Genelec 8040 speakers to compare and IMO both the 225 and the speakers had more punch and oomph than the T1. Not by much but I'm missing the feeling. This is so weird to say something doesn't have enough bass since my friends think I'm allergic to it but there seems to always be the first time for everything.

post #2132 of 10479

I don't think there are many (any?) open headphones with better bass impact than the T1. Perhaps the DT990 I used for a few days seemed like it had a little more impact because the mids were so recessed.

 

Perhaps your pair is defective? confused.gif

 

My only gripe with the T1 will always be that rather large but narrow treble spike. I've grown used to it. Still thinking about getting a HD800 sometime, but the frequency graphs I've seen make me think I'll probably hear even more sibilance from the HD800 because their treble spike is right in the middle of the sibilance range. But it's a smoother transition than the T1's... Hmmm


Edited by ZenErik - 2/26/12 at 2:06pm
post #2133 of 10479
Thread Starter 

If the T1 bothers you with the spike, then the HD800 will be bad for you. They are quite bright, brighter than the T1.

 

And yes the T1 has has exceptional bass impact for an open headphone. The HD650 has more impact but the bass is buddy and bloated. The DT990 has good impact as well, but the bass can be somewhat slow if the headphone in not amped properly.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post

I don't think there are many (any?) open headphones with better bass impact than the T1. Perhaps the DT990 I used for a few days seemed like it had a little more impact because the mids were so recessed.

 

Perhaps your pair is defective? confused.gif

 

My only gripe with the T1 will always be that rather larger but narrow treble spike. I've grown used to it. Still thinking about getting a HD800 sometime, but the frequency graphs I've seen make me think I'll probably hear even more sibilance from the HD800 because their treble spike is right in the middle of the sibilance range. But it's a smoother transition than the T1's... Hmmm



 

post #2134 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

If the T1 bothers you with the spike, then the HD800 will be bad for you. They are quite bright, brighter than the T1.

 

And yes the T1 has has exceptional bass impact for an open headphone. The HD650 has more impact but the bass is buddy and bloated. The DT990 has good impact as well, but the bass can be somewhat slow if the headphone in not amped properly.
 



 

Perhaps. Bright does not bother me so much. I enjoy the clarity that bright and clean treble can offer so long as it's not too harsh.

 

It's the sibilance I hear on many of my recordings that bothers me. And it is not the T1's fault that the vocals are recorded so poorly on lots of my favorites. Some recordings have sibilance bad enough that it's like a sharp whistle sound on occasion. Ouch! Mainly female vocals, but it varies depending on how well the recording was produced and how the particular vocalist pronounces their "s" sounds.
 

BTW, thanks for the recommendations on the SPL Auditor and Musical Fidelity M1DAC A a few months back. They pair up great with the T1. 

post #2135 of 10479

I think I need to go to the local audio store to get an opinion. They do not stock Beyer but maybe they can give some insight. Though I'm ashamed to go and ask since I didn't get these through themfrown.gif

 

On a side note I now realize all the weaknesses the Grados have. Smooth is the correct word to describe the T1's sound. The bass is also very smooth but there is no impact. It's only smooth. Like velvet. But only velvet.

post #2136 of 10479

sound pressure level is reduced because there is a hole venting straight through the driver and out of the shell, this combined with there ability to follow the source at the same time as being able to play louder anyways despite the aforementioned hole in the driver witch causes the mid and highs to seem louder cause they are, while most other divers would start break up in the low causing one to turn the volume down, the t1 remain clear and athoritative at the new louder spl. but for there to be enough power one needs a powerfull amp the reciever i am using now  causes them to sound round and robust yet the above properties still apply meaning properly driven the t1 can be  insanly loud and clear . and since most music is mastered on lesser transducers the brightness effect is felt ie. loud high and mids and with a powerfull amp loud lows. the thing is at this new spl everything is felt too loud since the ear is sensitive to high notes its the first thing that lets you know the sound is too loud. bring it back down and everything is clear lacking the impact that was heard and intended in the master studio. however since some music is mic ;d  and not altered after through monitors the power of the instrument let unleash as it where on the mic. pure , the t1 will reaveal said power and will not seam to bright because acustic istruments are more capable then monitoring rooms, the t1's are the best i have heard at capturing the piano wich i play and have recorded.

post #2137 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

Well those aren't flaws, it was designed this way. It was meant to sound smooth and pleasing. Sure it has the smearing you spoke of but IMO it's not all that bad. In direct comparison to my Auditor I can hear this "smearing" but it's not bad nor does it really detract from the sound. This amp reminds me of a tube amp, and that's a good thing.

 

As for using the Benchmark, I think that's not a good comparison. From when I tried the Benchmark DAC1 USB, I found it's headphone output to be "ok", but not great. It was high current and Grado's did sound good on it, but for anything else it didn't sound all that good. I could hear noticeable hiss in the background as well as some edgieness tot he sound. One thing I'll give it is that it was detailed and airy, but the sound was off. I'm not sure how to describe it.
 

 

 

I doubt they intentionally designed the amp to have a constricted soundstage and to smear details.  It's a by-product of their focus on a smooth and organic tone.  With that said, there are many amps which can offer such a pleasing tonality without sacrificing technicalities.

 

I agree that the Benchmark Dac1 USB's amp does not sound musical or engaging, but it is extremely technically proficient.  There is edginess to the sound because it does not shelve down the treble like the V200.  The detail, soundstage, and separation are what set it apart from the V200 for me.  Tell me, how is that not a good comparison?  An amp is an amp; what is so inappropriate about comparing the characteristics of one amp to those of another?

 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post

Perhaps. Bright does not bother me so much. I enjoy the clarity that bright and clean treble can offer so long as it's not too harsh.

 

It's the sibilance I hear on many of my recordings that bothers me. And it is not the T1's fault that the vocals are recorded so poorly on lots of my favorites. Some recordings have sibilance bad enough that it's like a sharp whistle sound on occasion. Ouch! Mainly female vocals, but it varies depending on how well the recording was produced and how the particular vocalist pronounces their "s" sounds.
 

BTW, thanks for the recommendations on the SPL Auditor and Musical Fidelity M1DAC A a few months back. They pair up great with the T1. 


If you value clarity, you should really give the HD 800 a try.  It is on another level from the T1 from a technical standpoint.

 

post #2138 of 10479

Hmm. Well, everyone's hearing is different. I get quite a thump from my T1's. EDM sounds AWESOME on the T1, IMO. Bass impact is fantastic for open cans. They're great for rock and metal too. Nice deep kick drum sounds and bass lines are tight and clear. :)

post #2139 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post

Hmm. Well, everyone's hearing is different. I get quite a thump from my T1's. EDM sounds AWESOME on the T1, IMO. Bass impact is fantastic for open cans. They're great for rock and metal too. Nice deep kick drum sounds and bass lines are tight and clear. :)



triportsad.gif

post #2140 of 10479
Thread Starter 

Maybe so, but from what I have been told it's been designed that way. I've heard it Robert that it was designed to have this signature.

 

As for the Benchmark I mainly said it was not a good comparison because of what it is. The V200 is a stand alone amp and the DAC1 is a combo unit. Comparing the amp sections is fine, but they are on different levels. That's why I stated it's not a good comparison. To me I personally wouldn't compare them because they are too far apart in performance, to my ears that is.

 

About the edgieness, my Auditor does not have this characteristic at all and my amp is supposedly one of the brighter amps out there. I think there either might be distortion or attenuation with the Benchmark's headphone circuit. It always sounded artificially boosted to me, but it's been so long so my memory might be playing tricks on me.

 

I wasn't trying to down the DAC1, as it's a fabulous DAC, but not a great headphone amp IMO.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post

 

I doubt they intentionally designed the amp to have a constricted soundstage and to smear details.  It's a by-product of their focus on a smooth and organic tone.  With that said, there are many amps which can offer such a pleasing tonality without sacrificing technicalities.

 

I agree that the Benchmark Dac1 USB's amp does not sound musical or engaging, but it is extremely technically proficient.  There is edginess to the sound because it does not shelve down the treble like the V200.  The detail, soundstage, and separation are what set it apart from the V200 for me.  Tell me, how is that not a good comparison?  An amp is an amp; what is so inappropriate about comparing the characteristics of one amp to those of another?


 

post #2141 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

Maybe so, but from what I have been told it's been designed that way. I've heard it Robert that it was designed to have this signature.

 

As for the Benchmark I mainly said it was not a good comparison because of what it is. The V200 is a stand alone amp and the DAC1 is a combo unit. Comparing the amp sections is fine, but they are on different levels. That's why I stated it's not a good comparison. To me I personally wouldn't compare them because they are too far apart in performance, to my ears that is.

 

About the edgieness, my Auditor does not have this characteristic at all and my amp is supposedly one of the brighter amps out there. I think there either might be distortion or attenuation with the Benchmark's headphone circuit. It always sounded artificially boosted to me, but it's been so long so my memory might be playing tricks on me.

 

I wasn't trying to down the DAC1, as it's a fabulous DAC, but not a great headphone amp IMO.
 

 


 

 

No business man with half a brain will openly accredit such serious flaws to being a lingering by-product of his design focus (in this case, the smooth tonality).

 

Too far apart in performance can go either way.  The Benchmark blows away the V200 technically - soundstage, separation, clarity, detail retrieval.  You simply prefer the V200's sound signature.

 

Just because the Auditor doesn't have any edginess even though it is known to be bright doesn't mean any amp that does is distorted or attenuated.  Btw, please explain that "theory." popcorn.gif

 

Again, I also find the treble of the Dac1 to be fatiguing at times.  It is not an engaging or musical amp and not one that is particularly enjoyable to listen to.  My point is that it is technically proficient whereas the V200 is debatable in that regard.  I do my listening through the Phoenix which has the warmth and musicality of the V200 while maintaining all the techncial aspects we've been talking about.  It also has more body to the tone than the Dac1 and even the V200, IIRC.

 
 

 

post #2142 of 10479
Thread Starter 

I won't argue about the DAC1's soundstage, clarity, detail as it's really good in those regards. It's not that I prefer the V200 sound signature, I vastly prefer how my Auditor sounds. I prefer how open, detailed, and resolving the Auditor sounds.

 

And yes it's true when specifying performance it can go either way. What I meant is how it's able to properly drive a headphone, not sound characteristics alone. Perhaps I should have specified this to begin with. 

 

To me the Auditor and DAC1 have a similar sound signature and share many of the same qualities. The Auditor just being the better amp in the end in terms of driving headphones. It also has superior extension, detail, soundstage, and so on.

 

When I said attenuated I merely meant that the treble sounded artificially boosted. Like I said I heard this weird "edge" to the treble that is similar to what you get when you boost treble, so to me it sounds boosted 9attenuated I guess, maybe wrong wording?). Well the DAC1 is bright as it is and that's why I didn't buy one.

 

Saintly, I really don't like arguing with people. So I'd like to stop here. Not trying to blow it off though, I juut dislike confrontations and debates. I'm sure you understand?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post

 

No business man with half a brain will openly accredit such serious flaws to being a lingering by-product of his design focus (in this case, the smooth tonality).

 

Too far apart in performance can go either way.  The Benchmark blows away the V200 technically - soundstage, separation, clarity, detail retrieval.  You simply prefer the V200's sound signature.

 

Just because the Auditor doesn't have any edginess even though it is known to be bright doesn't mean any amp that does is distorted or attenuated.  Btw, please explain that "theory." popcorn.gif

 

Again, I also find the treble of the Dac1 to be fatiguing at times.  It is not an engaging or musical amp and not one that is particularly enjoyable to listen to.  My point is that it is technically proficient whereas the V200 is debatable in that regard.  I do my listening through the Phoenix which has the warmth and musicality of the V200 while maintaining all the techncial aspects we've been talking about.  It also has more body to the tone than the Dac1 and even the V200, IIRC.

 
 

 



 

post #2143 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

I won't argue about the DAC1's soundstage, clarity, detail as it's really good in those regards. It's not that I prefer the V200 sound signature, I vastly prefer how my Auditor sounds. I prefer how open, detailed, and resolving the Auditor sounds.

 

And yes it's true when specifying performance it can go either way. What I meant is how it's able to properly drive a headphone, not sound characteristics alone. Perhaps I should have specified this to begin with. 

 

To me the Auditor and DAC1 have a similar sound signature and share many of the same qualities. The Auditor just being the better amp in the end in terms of driving headphones. It also has superior extension, detail, soundstage, and so on.

 

When I said attenuated I merely meant that the treble sounded artificially boosted. Like I said I heard this weird "edge" to the treble that is similar to what you get when you boost treble, so to me it sounds boosted 9attenuated I guess, maybe wrong wording?). Well the DAC1 is bright as it is and that's why I didn't buy one.

 

Saintly, I really don't like arguing with people. So I'd like to stop here. Not trying to blow it off though, I juut dislike confrontations and debates. I'm sure you understand?
 



 

 

I don't doubt that the Auditor is the superior amp at all.  It's just that according to those criteria you gave, the V200 would not be considered a better amp than the Dac1.

 

Fair enough, no more arguing from me.
 

 

post #2144 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

If the T1 bothers you with the spike, then the HD800 will be bad for you. They are quite bright, brighter than the T1.

 

And yes the T1 has has exceptional bass impact for an open headphone. The HD650 has more impact but the bass is buddy and bloated. The DT990 has good impact as well, but the bass can be somewhat slow if the headphone in not amped properly.
 



 



i've always felt the HD 650 bass to be a little slower than the DT 990s. or perhaps not slow, but it can smear the bass texture on bass intensive music like drum n' bass. the beyers also hit harder than the hd 650 but the hd 650s have slightly better sounding bass that goes deeper.

post #2145 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post



i've always felt the HD 650 bass to be a little slower than the DT 990s. or perhaps not slow, but it can smear the bass texture on bass intensive music like drum n' bass. the beyers also hit harder than the hd 650 but the hd 650s have slightly better sounding bass that goes deeper.



This is only true if the 650s aren't well-driven. Otherwise their bass quality is noticeably better than the DT990's (no matter the version). The Beyers do hit harder though because of their relatively boosted midbass.

 

I also don't think the 650s have muddy or smeared bass in absolute terms, but in comparison to the T1 and especially the HD800, their bass is less defined.


Edited by Shahrose - 2/27/12 at 3:27pm
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