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The Official Beyerdynamic T1 Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 105

post #1561 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post


You're going to drop $1300 on a pair of headphones and then power them with a $250 Chinese amp? These new flagships are VERY revealing of what you have in your front end: AMP/DAC/SOURCE. All are very important to bringing out the most of these headphones....otherwise, you'd be leaving a lot of cards on the table.

 


Like I said a couple posts back, the headphones were already a pretty big stretch for me, being a college student.  However, I thought I'd go all out on a pair first and then upgrade my system little by little in the future.

 

I was under the impression that most amps nowadays are technically proficient and that more expensive ones are just more pleasantly colored rather than technically superior by leaps and bounds over the cheaper ones.  I understand that many people here do not see it this way and I respect that; I myself do not know what to think of this matter.

 

With that said, do you think the compressed dynamics is due to the limitations of the E7/E9 combo?  I always found that pair to work very well until I noticed the problem with the dynamics.  At higher volumes, dynamics are enhanced a bit but would a better amp allow for unrestrained dynamics even at a lower volume?

 

I already ordered the HRT Music Stream II and am thinking about the Schiit Valhalla.  Does anyone have any other suggestions or insights?  Thanks!

 

post #1562 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post


Like I said a couple posts back, the headphones were already a pretty big stretch for me, being a college student.  However, I thought I'd go all out on a pair first and then upgrade my system little by little in the future.

 

I was under the impression that most amps nowadays are technically proficient and that more expensive ones are just more pleasantly colored rather than technically superior by leaps and bounds over the cheaper ones.  I understand that many people here do not see it this way and I respect that; I myself do not know what to think of this matter.

 

With that said, do you think the compressed dynamics is due to the limitations of the E7/E9 combo?  I always found that pair to work very well until I noticed the problem with the dynamics.  At higher volumes, dynamics are enhanced a bit but would a better amp allow for unrestrained dynamics even at a lower volume?

 

I already ordered the HRT Music Stream II and am thinking about the Schiit Valhalla.  Does anyone have any other suggestions or insights?  Thanks!

 


If you're going to be driving the T1 primarily, I'd suggest the Lyr over the Valhalla if you're willing to spend a little more. I'd also suggest looking into some ss amps over cheaper tube amps, personally. The Asgard would be a better option than the Valhalla for the T1 imo, as would the Meier Concerto.


Edited by MuppetFace - 11/15/11 at 8:06pm
post #1563 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post


If you're going to be driving the T1 primarily, I'd suggest the Lyr over the Valhalla if you're willing to spend a little more. I'd also suggest looking into some ss amps over cheaper tube amps, personally. The Asgard would be a better option than the Valhalla for the T1 imo, as would the Meier Concerto.


I remember reading that at this price range, a SS amp is most likely a better bet than tube amp but people seem to rave about the T1 paired with a tube amp.  On the Schiit product description page, they specifically mention that the Valhalla does well with the Beyer 600 ohm and the Sennheiser 300 ohm (I assume the HD 800).  

 

What is the rationale for choosing Asgard over the Valhalla for the T1s?  I was under the impression that the Valhalla is more capable of providing a large voltage swing?  Just to be clear, I'm not arguing; just trying to learn as much as I can about all this stuff.

 

As for the Lyr, isn't it a bit overkill in terms of power? 

post #1564 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post


I remember reading that at this price range, a SS amp is most likely a better bet than tube amp but people seem to rave about the T1 paired with a tube amp.  On the Schiit product description page, they specifically mention that the Valhalla does well with the Beyer 600 ohm and the Sennheiser 300 ohm (I assume the HD 800).  

 

What is the rationale for choosing Asgard over the Valhalla for the T1s?  I was under the impression that the Valhalla is more capable of providing a large voltage swing?  Just to be clear, I'm not arguing; just trying to learn as much as I can about all this stuff.

 

As for the Lyr, isn't it a bit overkill in terms of power? 


Sorry, I should have clarified my post a bit. I personally prefer the sound of the Asgard to the Valhalla in a general sense, which was where my comment came from. I haven't tried the Valhalla with the T1 specifically, so for all I know it could have good synergy.

 

As far as the Lyr being overkill, I'd say this isn't really the case despite its huge power. Again, I haven't heard the Lyr with the T1 specifically, but when I tried the amp, the sound quality was better than the Valhalla's in just about every respect imo, and Schiit pretty much acknowledge that on their site FAQ.

 

This is just my own personal preference, nothing more. I never cared for the Valhalla and many other tube amps in that price range. They just don't match the quality of a SS for the same price imo. Yes, the T1 may benefit from a tube amp's lushness, but it comes down to the quality of that tube amp. I'd say a T1 with a quality SS amp  is going to definitely outshine a T1 with a poor quality tube amp obviously.


Edited by MuppetFace - 11/15/11 at 8:43pm
post #1565 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post


Sorry, I should have clarified my post a bit. I personally prefer the sound of the Asgard to the Valhalla in a general sense, which was where my comment came from. I haven't tried the Valhalla with the T1 specifically, so for all I know it could have good synergy.

 

As far as the Lyr being overkill, I'd say this isn't really the case despite its huge power. Again, I haven't heard the Lyr with the T1 specifically, but when I tried the amp, the sound quality was better than the Valhalla's in just about every respect imo, and Schiit pretty much acknowledge that on their site FAQ.

 

This is just my own personal preference, nothing more. I never cared for the Valhalla and many other tube amps in that price range. They just don't match the quality of a SS for the same price imo. Yes, the T1 may benefit from a tube amp's lushness, but it comes down to the quality of that tube amp. I'd say a T1 with a quality SS amp  is going to definitely outshine a T1 with a poor quality tube amp obviously.

 

Thanks a lot for the clarification.  I read the same thing regarding SS vs tube amps at this price range.

 

I've also read a lot of comparisons between the Matrix M-stage and Asgard and it seems that the vast majority of people who've heard both prefer the M-stage.  Have you had a chance to hear the M-stage?  
 

 

post #1566 of 10479

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post

 

Thanks a lot for the clarification.  I read the same thing regarding SS vs tube amps at this price range.

 

I've also read a lot of comparisons between the Matrix M-stage and Asgard and it seems that the vast majority of people who've heard both prefer the M-stage.  Have you had a chance to hear the M-stage?  
 

 


I haven't heard the M stage, but it's definitely well regarded. Have you considered any of the DIY amps? The Bottleheads, M3, etc.

post #1567 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 


I haven't heard the M stage, but it's definitely well regarded. Have you considered any of the DIY amps? The Bottleheads, M3, etc.


DIY sounds like a great idea but the only time I'd have time to work on such a project is during the summer.  Even then, internships and such may get in the way.

 

Thanks for all your help.

post #1568 of 10479

I've been using the Valhalla exclusively with my T1. It is my bedroom rig. I can't say enough good about the combo. As for the Lyr, I think you will find there is not much to the volume control. I only get to 12-1 on the Valhalla, and it is plenty loud. A Squeezebox Touch is feeding it.

 

As for the SS amps, I've really only tried my b22 with it, which I really did not care for. I need to try it on the vintage Marantz sitting here. That may be another viable option as well. I, and a number of other folks, have had much success using the old receivers as headphone amps. Check out the Calling all "Vintage" Integrated/Receiver Owners thread.

 

Hope that helps. L3000.gif

post #1569 of 10479

i would not recommend using the LYr for the T1 as Beyer only recommends 360MW of maximum power. A prioblem using that much power can blow drivers. I would check out some  OTL for them if you want tubes. The Martrix V1 worked well for them but IMO the V2 was not as good as I owned both and preferred the V1 over it much more. If you can stretch check out the Decware CSP2 or Woo WA2 . The lyr is designed more for the power hungry orthos and not a high impedance easy to drive T1.

post #1570 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by wotts View Post

I've been using the Valhalla exclusively with my T1. It is my bedroom rig. I can't say enough good about the combo. As for the Lyr, I think you will find there is not much to the volume control. I only get to 12-1 on the Valhalla, and it is plenty loud. A Squeezebox Touch is feeding it.

 

As for the SS amps, I've really only tried my b22 with it, which I really did not care for. I need to try it on the vintage Marantz sitting here. That may be another viable option as well. I, and a number of other folks, have had much success using the old receivers as headphone amps. Check out the Calling all "Vintage" Integrated/Receiver Owners thread.

 

Hope that helps. L3000.gif



The Valhalla is one that I'm really considering. How would you describe the sound of the Valhalla/T1 pairing versus that of other amps? I read that the Valhalla sounds more like a SS than a tube?  

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post

i would not recommend using the LYr for the T1 as Beyer only recommends 360MW of maximum power. A prioblem using that much power can blow drivers. I would check out some  OTL for them if you want tubes. The Martrix V1 worked well for them but IMO the V2 was not as good as I owned both and preferred the V1 over it much more. If you can stretch check out the Decware CSP2 or Woo WA2 . The lyr is designed more for the power hungry orthos and not a high impedance easy to drive T1.

 

I was also under the impression that the Lyr was designed for more demanding cans and I certainly wouldn't want to risk blowing the drivers on the T1.  Thanks!
 

 

post #1571 of 10479


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post

i would not recommend using the LYr for the T1 as Beyer only recommends 360MW of maximum power. A prioblem using that much power can blow drivers.


While possible, powerful amps do not typically damage drivers.  Power is like HP in a car.  It only gets you in trouble only if you misuse it.

 

The bigger risk is trying to use an underpowered amp to drive a higher volume than the amp can provide without significant distortion.  Overdriven amps can cause damage, although this is much more a speaker issue than a headphone problem.

 

post #1572 of 10479


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post



The Valhalla is one that I'm really considering. How would you describe the sound of the Valhalla/T1 pairing versus that of other amps? I read that the Valhalla sounds more like a SS than a tube?  

 

 

I was also under the impression that the Lyr was designed for more demanding cans and I certainly wouldn't want to risk blowing the drivers on the T1.  Thanks!
 

 

The T1 is not a demanding headphone. If you check the specs the T1 is rated for power amp usage at 360MW maximum. I Have used headphone jacks on my vintage receiver and I use the Taboo very rarely as that would put more power but I am not afraid they will blow up but IMO OTL sound best after using 5 different SS headphone amps and Four different vintage receivers IMO the T1 is best with the OTL at least in my system.  I have not heard my T1 with a WA2 but I did extensively with the Woo^ and 6SE and the CSP2 in my setup sounds best with very user favorable current production tubes. The t1 is not a very demanding headphone but will reveal all the differences in headphones and IMO the Lyr is too powerful for the T1.
 

 

post #1573 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post


 

The T1 is not a demanding headphone. If you check the specs the T1 is rated for power amp usage at 360MW maximum. I Have used headphone jacks on my vintage receiver and I use the Taboo very rarely as that would put more power but I am not afraid they will blow up but IMO OTL sound best after using 5 different SS headphone amps and Four different vintage receivers IMO the T1 is best with the OTL at least in my system.  I have not heard my T1 with a WA2 but I did extensively with the Woo^ and 6SE and the CSP2 in my setup sounds best with very user favorable current production tubes. The t1 is not a very demanding headphone but will reveal all the differences in headphones and IMO the Lyr is too powerful for the T1.
 

 



i purchased the csp2 because of Frank.  im happy with it. not as "smokey night club" as the WA2 (to my ears, by memory), but a very balanced sound to me.  even with a 60$ source, the bass is amazing and the mids/highs are no slouch. 

post #1574 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapiti View Post

While possible, powerful amps do not typically damage drivers.  Power is like HP in a car.  It only gets you in trouble only if you misuse it.

 


 

Thanks, I think this needed to be said.

post #1575 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post


 

The T1 is not a demanding headphone. If you check the specs the T1 is rated for power amp usage at 360MW maximum. I Have used headphone jacks on my vintage receiver and I use the Taboo very rarely as that would put more power but I am not afraid they will blow up but IMO OTL sound best after using 5 different SS headphone amps and Four different vintage receivers IMO the T1 is best with the OTL at least in my system.  I have not heard my T1 with a WA2 but I did extensively with the Woo^ and 6SE and the CSP2 in my setup sounds best with very user favorable current production tubes. The t1 is not a very demanding headphone but will reveal all the differences in headphones and IMO the Lyr is too powerful for the T1.
 

 

 

That's exactly what I meant.  I was under the impression that the Lyr was designed for more demanding headphones than the T1 since the T1 has relatively high sensitivity.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think I can stretch my budget too much at this time.  Do you have any preferences between the Valhalla, Asgard, LD MK III, Matrix M-Stage. or anything else in this price range?  I know that people rave about the T1 with a tube amp but at this price range, would a SS outperform tube amp technically?
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapiti View Post


 


While possible, powerful amps do not typically damage drivers.  Power is like HP in a car.  It only gets you in trouble only if you misuse it.

 

The bigger risk is trying to use an underpowered amp to drive a higher volume than the amp can provide without significant distortion.  Overdriven amps can cause damage, although this is much more a speaker issue than a headphone problem.

 


My understanding of this is most likely not correct, but I was under the impression that regardless of whether or not you "misuse" it, the voltage by the Lyr to 600 ohms will exceed the 360MW max recommendation for the T1s?

 

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