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SR60-Mod - Page 25  

post #361 of 5003
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Nightslayer View Post

A quick question, are the drivers used in the SR60, SR60i, SR80 and SR80i identical? The SR80 isn't known for being bass anaemic or anything of that sort, right? Because I just bought an SR80 driver from BobSaysHi to replace my busted SR60 one, and the contrast between the two couldn't be greater. The bass on the SR60 practically booms compared to the SR80, which has practically every bass frequency cut off, by more than 10dBs or so. The rest of the frequencies seem fine though. 

 

The official word from Grado, and the unofficial word from the Grado surrogates on Headfi, is that each driver in the Grado lineup is different. What they mean by "different" is some kind of state secret.  Having taken apart the iGrado, the SR60, the SR60i, the SR80, the SR80i, the SR225, SR225i, the SR325i and the SR325is, I can't give you any meaningful difference between them.  The mylar is the same shape and thickness; the magnet is the same size and weight; the frame is the same plastic, with the same felt.  If there's a difference, it's in the grill cloth, any doping used on the driver (none of which I ever noticed), the materials of the shell, the use or non-use of damping on the magnet back, the type of cushion used and the amount (and quality) of the wire used in the cable.

 

Originally Posted by BobSaysHi View Post

I've always thought that they were identical, however something is obviously different between the drivers. I know that Grado matches their drivers at the factory, that might account for the difference. Maybe Bilavideo will chime in, he's been offline for a couple weeks now.

 

Do my drivers really sound bass anemic? They've always sounded like that.

 

I had that happen to a pair of MS1s I was working on.  One morning they were fine; the next, they weren't.  I couldn't tell why they were not performing properly but I'd suddenly found the bass cut off.  That was before I went irate and destroyed the driver.  Expensive tantrum.
 

Originally Posted by Navermyr View Post

One observation: it looks like there are holes in the paper covering the backside of the diaphragm of the SR80 driver. This changes the bass response, although most observers claim that this should increase the bass - see earlier (the first etc) posts in this thread.


Those holes are the original holes in the driver that were later covered by paper/felt.

post #362 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post

I had that happen to a pair of MS1s I was working on.  One morning they were fine; the next, they weren't.  I couldn't tell why they were not performing properly but I'd suddenly found the bass cut off.  That was before I went irate and destroyed the driver.  Expensive tantrum.


It's just that they have always sounded that way, even from the factory. I always thought that Grados had very low amounts of bass, but if you're telling me that my headphones have some kind of defect then I am, indeed, pissed off. My two complaints about the my Grados are their (lack of) comfort and their (lack of) bass. I find this all very hard to believe. I need to hear another pair of Grados to confirm this, but I am chalking this one up to differences in the driver models.

post #363 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSaysHi View Post




It's just that they have always sounded that way, even from the factory. I always thought that Grados had very low amounts of bass, but if you're telling me that my headphones have some kind of defect then I am, indeed, pissed off. My two complaints about the my Grados are their (lack of) comfort and their (lack of) bass. I find this all very hard to believe. I need to hear another pair of Grados to confirm this, but I am chalking this one up to differences in the driver models.


I never thought of grados lacking bass at all, after I did the 4 hold punch mod, my bass impact went up a nice 3+ db and roll off was more balanced at that spectrum, with added decay, at the cost of some speed. Much more bass than my RE0s or any IEMs that I've tried is all I can say. 

Again, if you wear them properly, they shouldn't hurt; indeed that they are tough cowboy headphones. 

post #364 of 5003

I like the mods.  Not sold on the cloth removal.

post #365 of 5003

Ohgosh, this is certainly not good. Now that I've resoldered the cables there's no way I could claim the warranty for a defective product, so is there any way this could be fixed by myself? The bass on one side certainly makes up for the lack of it on the other, but the tonal imbalance is driving me crazy.

post #366 of 5003
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Nightslayer View Post

Ohgosh, this is certainly not good. Now that I've resoldered the cables there's no way I could claim the warranty for a defective product, so is there any way this could be fixed by myself? The bass on one side certainly makes up for the lack of it on the other, but the tonal imbalance is driving me crazy.


One question: Did you have ample bass before?  If you just recently saw the bass drop off, as if right off a cliff, it's not an imbalance between the drivers.  It's a defective situation in the driver with the poor bass.  Don't panic and don't do what I did - and have a meltdown.  To quote Walter Sobachek, "Nothin's f'd, dude.  Nothin's f'd."

 

A driver is a very simple mechanism.  If you've got bass reproduction issues, it has to come from one of three sources:

 

1) Your magnet isn't a magnet anymore.  Without a magnet, there's no EM field and no real movement of the diaphragm.  But if that's the case, why are you getting any sound at all?

 

2) Your wiring is no longer connecting properly, so you're only working with a fraction of the juice.  This is the problem you hope you have.  Take a breath and unsolder and resolder in the hopes of getting it right this time.  You can think you have a good connection, because you're connected physically, but if that wire is just connected to solder, you're not really as connected as you think you are.

 

3) You have a blockage in your diaphragm.  I had this problem just this week.  When listening to a driver, I noticed that one side had a buzz to it.  Upon closer inspection, I discovered that there was debris stuck to the outside of the mylar film.  I gently wet the area with a drippy finger and got rid of the debris.  All was good again.

 

I'm thinking that a vented diaphragm may be prone to more than just the odd issue of dust and debris.  With those issues, you could simply blow through the backside holes (gently, of course), and work any dust loose (but close your eyes because airborn dust, even the little stuff, is not fun to get into your eyes - and yes, I've done that to myself, too).  In addition to the dust issue, there may be a humidity issue.  For full bass reproduction, you need the large part of the driver to vibrate freely.  If there's an obstruction, which could include humidity or dust, you'll get plenty of vibration from the smaller portion (and lots of HF) but you'll be missing that full bass.  Long story short, find a way to dry your driver out.  I'd be careful about a trip to the oven, but some time around the AC or anywhere you have dry air would be a good idea. 

 

See if that doesn't help and don't worry.  We're there for you.

post #367 of 5003

I think it has to do with blockage. My other driver had some dog hair in it and I cleaned it out, however I never got a chance to listen to them because that driver broke. I would look inside and see if you can see any hair or dirt.

post #368 of 5003
Have tried blowing through the felt and the front, completely resoldered connections, still at a loss for what to do. Can't see any visible debris through the front or back. Hm :/ oh and, the driver arrived sounding like this.
Edited by Nightslayer - 10/30/10 at 6:41pm
post #369 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightslayer View Post

Ohgosh, this is certainly not good. Now that I've resoldered the cables there's no way I could claim the warranty for a defective product, so is there any way this could be fixed by myself? The bass on one side certainly makes up for the lack of it on the other, but the tonal imbalance is driving me crazy.


I had the same problem on my 325i just before the warranty expired. I thought it was just my poor hearing but others noticed the drop out too. I returned the headphones to the local audio salon I purchased them from for warranty repair. I later received a call from the local tech at the salon and he told me that Grado told him it's a known condition and requires driver replacement which he did with (thankfully) no cost to me. Unfortunately I never heard the exact reason for the failure but I do know that no amount of sucking on the grill (a fix I read about elsewhere) could fix what I thought was a malformed diaphragm. At the time the only thing that made sense to me was that the voice coil wasn't exactly and correctly centered in the magnetic gap (which a severe diaphragm crease could do).

 

I suggest you send Grado a email and plead your case for warranty replacement. If indeed the tech wasn't BSing me (a possibility I guess) and if it's a known condition that requires driver replacement, what difference would it make to Grado if you modded a driver which was fundamentally flawed in the first place and is only fixed by replacement?

 

Please let us know what Grado says since their response may determine whether I buy another set of Grado's in the future just as it should for you (tell them that - you deserve to have a correctly working pair). Best of luck, and I would also recommend you don't do anything further to them as Bilavideo suggests.

post #370 of 5003

^This. Seriously, do this. Stop reading head-fi and contact Grado.

 

http://www.gradolabs.com/frameset_main.htm

 

post #371 of 5003

The cans are way out of warranty already, so I'm on my own. They said it's uneconomical to pay for repairs due to shipping, which is very true since I live in Singapore, so I guess that way's a no go. Hmm but according to Billa diaphragm creases can be fixed..?

post #372 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightslayer View Post

The cans are way out of warranty already, so I'm on my own. They said it's uneconomical to pay for repairs due to shipping, which is very true since I live in Singapore, so I guess that way's a no go. Hmm but according to Billa diaphragm creases can be fixed..?



come to malaysia for repairs?

go to lowyat forum... find out who's PcWork there.

he could fix the phones if you could come. but of course... with money biggrin.gif

post #373 of 5003
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by Nightslayer View Post

The cans are way out of warranty already, so I'm on my own. They said it's uneconomical to pay for repairs due to shipping, which is very true since I live in Singapore, so I guess that way's a no go. Hmm but according to Billa diaphragm creases can be fixed..?


If you have a crease in the driver, liberate the driver.  You don't need a plastic cage, anyway.  Then take a piece of tape (electrical tape works well) and lay it over the exposed driver, where the crease is.  Smooth the tape over the creased area, then gently pull.  Every crease can be pulled this way.  The mylar, while flimsy enough to crease up, is amazingly resilient, provided you don't puncture it.

 

If your problem is one of voice-coil alignment, keep the following in mind.  The voice coil is glued to the diaphragm.  With an extremely dynamic punch of bass, it's possible for the diaphragm to pull the bottom of the voice coil out from that groove surrounding the magnet.  That groove, however, is just the gap between the magnet and the magnet plate.  It's a pain to center if you were to pull it out (as I have) because most flathead screwdrivers you would use to wedge it are still a bit thick for the gap, but we're not talking about mystical, magical, mumbo jumbo.  It's a magnet centered in a magnet plate that leaves a gap large enough for the voice coil.  The only thing holding the magnet in is the magnetic attraction between the magnet and the plate, which is perhaps one

reason Grado damps the magnet plate to prevent ringing.  The only thing wedging the voice coil into that gap is friction, itself.  What slides out can be slide back in.  The real question, in that case, is what to use to slide it back in.  Believe it or not, the easiest approach is to use the diaphragm to push the voice coil in.  This will create creases, but those creases can be popped back out with tape.  It's about as distasteful a procedure as performing surgery behind somebody's eyeball, but it beats the next best step, which is to gently pull the diaphragm off the plastic spider and literally get behind it.  I don't like this latter approach because the risk of ripping the diaphragm is much greater.

 

I realize that some of the things I'm suggesting are practically heretical.  It's just that I no longer see my Grados as sacred objects.  I see them for what they are: an assemblage of parts that can be disassembled and reassembled for repair or improvement.  Good luck!


Edited by Bilavideo - 10/31/10 at 8:57am
post #374 of 5003

Hey Nightslayer, don't you still have your old driver? Practice taking the driver apart on that one, and then use what you've learned on the working driver. It's very difficult the first time, but after you do it once you can do it over and over again. There were wrinkles on my other driver, but after taking it apart and pulling them out with tape, I didn't notice the bass increase. Good luck.

post #375 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightslayer View Post

The cans are way out of warranty already, so I'm on my own. They said it's uneconomical to pay for repairs due to shipping, which is very true since I live in Singapore, so I guess that way's a no go. Hmm but according to Billa diaphragm creases can be fixed..?


Oh man, that's a major P.I.T.A. nobody needs. I'm not sure if my drop out was caused by a diaphragm crease tho, it just seemed the most logical cause to me at the time. Frankly, I wouldn't consider it a certainty that any diaphragm repair attempt will solve the drop out problem. On the other hand, you've now got nothing to lose by following Bilavideo's suggestions, and your repair attempt may not end at the diaphragm (yikes). But first I'd try the diaphragm suck method I read about at that other major headphone site (perhaps here too). Before you disassemble the thing, put your mouth around the grill cloth and gently suck in with increasing pressure until you hear a crinkle/pop. It may take a quick suck in to realign the diaphragm/voice coil correctly but best to start off gently first. Then take a hair dryer on low setting and aim it at the diaphragm for a 5 or 6 seconds. This worked for me a couple of times on my good non-drop out driver to correct a distortion and lack of bass caused by excessive driver excursion (ie. a crease in the diaphragm). But as I mentioned before, this method never cured the major drop out problem I had on my bad driver (which had the identical problem you described)...but again, you've now got nothing to lose by trying this.

 

Whatever you try or do I hope it all works out for you.

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