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SR60-Mod - Page 142  

post #2116 of 5003
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by sharkz View Post

I was under the impression all the wood Grado's used some form of Mahogany due to the fact it is readily avalible and easy to work with. That is what I would assume the HF driver housings are.


Mahogany was a good choice.  It's expensive but not too expensive.  It's mysterious and exotic.  It has a great sound to it - emphasizing both ends of the spectrum.  It cuts fairly easily and also lacquers beautifully, even though Grado never really pushed that part of it.  The inners are pretty raw and the outers are barely one-coat splashes.  But I'll say this much - I'd kill to do such a nice job of putting in all those angles and engraving, etc.  Grado does have a sense of style.

 

The choice of shell really does bring out different qualities in the presentation.  I look forward to using some topwoods to see to what extent they help the HF.  I've used some fairly inexpensive woods - like poplar, pine, whitewood and cedar - which have a more neutral sound but which also run rings around plastic.  I'm a huge fan of cocobolo, which is not only beautiful but wonderfully dynamic in producing great bass.  I'm also quite impressed with East Indian rosewood.  Brazilian rosewood deserves its reputation as the king of tonewoods, though these others - less expensive and more easily available options - are so good, it's hard to be a purist about it, especially when BR is so expensive and so laden with legal restrictions.

 


Edited by Bilavideo - 3/11/11 at 3:19pm
post #2117 of 5003

Bill, is it just me, or does your initial mod (up to the part where you sourced new cable) make my SR60i darker ? I am very impressed with the newfound bass impact, even though I dont consider myself a basshead, but I'm also of the opinion that the 'BV60i' fundamentally shifts the balance on the littlest Grado - I can see why John Grado would have opted for the screening in the first place. If I had to nominate another pair of open cans with a similarly 'dark-without-being-Sennheiser-dark', it would be the DT440. Fortunately, I like the DT440 sound, but I'm sure there are Grado fans who dont.

 

(fwiw, I used automotive weatherstripping tape in place of the felt you used to dampen any unwanted acoustic resonance - its thicker and may be damping the drivers a little more than your felt did : http://www.haigh.com.au/index.php?option=showproduct&ParentID=417)

 

Overall, kudos  - the BV60i is a revelation, cheapie plastic cups and all.

post #2118 of 5003

In the spirit of Wood is Good I got new toys today. I'm getting an ipad soon I hope and an iphone in August so I bought some of these from Headroom B-stock for half the price new. They are Woodees Vintage In Ear Stereo Earphones and they sound pretty damn awesome..rich, smooth bass and very easy to listen to...so if your an In Ear earphone type occasionally like I am you might want to check these out..

Maybe I missed something but I can't seem to find much info as far as other peoples opinion of the sound.

Anyway..sorry for the interuption!!!

Woodees Vintage-C.JPG

post #2119 of 5003
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

Bill, is it just me, or does your initial mod (up to the part where you sourced new cable) make my SR60i darker ? I am very impressed with the newfound bass impact, even though I dont consider myself a basshead, but I'm also of the opinion that the 'BV60i' fundamentally shifts the balance on the littlest Grado - I can see why John Grado would have opted for the screening in the first place. If I had to nominate another pair of open cans with a similarly 'dark-without-being-Sennheiser-dark', it would be the DT440. Fortunately, I like the DT440 sound, but I'm sure there are Grado fans who dont.

 

(fwiw, I used automotive weatherstripping tape in place of the felt you used to dampen any unwanted acoustic resonance - its thicker and may be damping the drivers a little more than your felt did : http://www.haigh.com.au/index.php?option=showproduct&ParentID=417)

 

Overall, kudos  - the BV60i is a revelation, cheapie plastic cups and all.


Yes, in a way.  Terms like "lighter" and "darker" are relative.  With unvented drivers, undamped magnet plates, plastic housings and standard 24 awg wire, Grados are relatively "bright."  You might not notice it as much with the SR60, given the grill cloth and the comfies, which act as filters while pressing the ear close to the driver and either limiting HF dispersion or limiting bass loss.  The SR80 seems "brighter" - or did when it was clothed with bowls.   The bowls not only cut out the foamy filter and move the ears a little further from the driver; they also provide more lateral escape of the bass.

 

As I see it, the classic plastic Grados of the Prestige Series are open - which is good for HF - but not so effective at capturing bass.  This makes them seem light.  When you get to the SR325, it's a love/hate situation.  The sparkle on the 325 is fantastic but it easily outperforms the bass.  This is because the aluminum housing really does make a difference.  It doesn't help that there's a plastic ring in the middle of the second shell, as well as a plastic button in the middle of the rear grill, as well as bowls instead of flats for cushions.  

 

If you strip away the grill cloth, you get more HF sparkle.  If you vent the drivers, you immediately get more punch in the bass. If you damp the back of the magnet plate and get rid of that plastic button and plastic mesh, you get a much cleaner presentation.  The venting renders the plastic Grados "darker" by comparison but not because the treble is repressed.  It's because you don't have to crank the master volume to get your bass fix and that means you're not cranking the treble to bleeding-ears levels.  It's still not as "dark" as the Sennheisers which seem to raise bass before treble rather than the other way around.  

 

When you add the wood, the unique qualities of each wood type impact the presentation in interesting ways.  I'm not suggesting that the differences between species are so distinct that each one is a separate flavor, but mahogany - for example - is not as "bassy" as cocobolo, East Indian rosewood, Brazilian rosewood or Bolivian rosewood.  You can make a go of using mahogany without having to chuck the bowls or comfies but once you get into these top tonewoods, the bass response is so dynamic, you find yourself wanting to size up on the pads.  This is, in its own way, a wonderful luxury since it affords you the opportunity to enlarge the soundstage without losing bass.  The GS1000 shows what happens if you take it too far, but that's partly caused by Grado's decision to add more mahogany rather than switching to a more bass-responsive tonewood.  A switch to cocobolo or Brazilian rosewood or East Indian rosewood provides as much bass as the GS1000, but without having to produce a huge mushroom top to get there.

 

post #2120 of 5003

Bill so your thinking is the older original Grado's are a good place to start and you can turn them into pretty much any of the other models with some venting, Dynamatt, no cloth and the shell of your choice to round out the sound. So with these mods and all the great stuff you've come up with the older the Grado's the better correct?

 

Both of mine, the SR60's and SR125's got the same mods and treatment on the screen with the thin foam and I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the two except for the fact that the 125's has a 1/4" jack instead of a mini...so buy old then mod up!!!darthsmile.gif

post #2121 of 5003

Manned up and partially liberated one of the drivers, also as another member mentioned the "Prestige Series" lettering is printed on a separate thin ring as seen in the picture and falls out really easily with a little heat from a hair dryer.

 

What's the best way to get the holed ring covering the driver off?

 

photo.JPG


Edited by aeonepsilon - 3/11/11 at 6:19pm
post #2122 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post


Mahogany was a good choice.  It's expensive but not too expensive.  It's mysterious and exotic.  It has a great sound to it - emphasizing both ends of the spectrum.  It cuts fairly easily and also lacquers beautifully, even though Grado never really pushed that part of it.  The inners are pretty raw and the outers are barely one-coat splashes.  But I'll say this much - I'd kill to do such a nice job of putting in all those angles and engraving, etc.  Grado does have a sense of style.

 

The choice of shell really does bring out different qualities in the presentation.  I look forward to using some topwoods to see to what extent they help the HF.  I've used some fairly inexpensive woods - like poplar, pine, whitewood and cedar - which have a more neutral sound but which also run rings around plastic.  I'm a huge fan of cocobolo, which is not only beautiful but wonderfully dynamic in producing great bass.  I'm also quite impressed with East Indian rosewood.  Brazilian rosewood deserves its reputation as the king of tonewoods, though these others - less expensive and more easily available options - are so good, it's hard to be a purist about it, especially when BR is so expensive and so laden with legal restrictions.

 



Thanks for the responses everyone. I've been wanting to partially liberate my driver from the plastic shell and put it in a wooden one. I've been thinking Spruce and pairing a topwood with a tonewood the way a luthier builds a guitar. I just read this:

 

Perhaps the most important factor a luthier must take into account is velocity of sound, which refers to the speed at which a material transmits received energy. A luthier must design with materials that facilitate the transmission of vibrational energy. Lively materials, those with a high velocity of sound, or low internal damping make the best facilitators. 

 

from the same article:

 

Mahogany

 

When used as a top, mahogany has a relatively low velocity of sound (compared to other top woods), considerable density and a low overtone content producing a solid tone, and responds best at the upper end of the dynamic range. Mahogany-topped guitars have a strong "punchy" tone that is well suited to country blues playing.

 

 

.......<SNIP> ........

 

 

Mahogany necks help to create a warmer, more "woody" tonal range. The same holds true when mahogany is used as bridge material......

 

 

 

So maybe as an inner Grado has discerned that the mahogany provides low internal dampening which works best for transmitting the energy of the driver to the outer shell. Of course the symphones use aluminum which I assume would have a very high velocity of sound.......

 

 

Right now I'm trying to track down some African Blackwood to make some cups out of. Cocobolo is awesome but as a tonewood I read somewhere that African Blackwood is to Brazilian Rosewood what Brazilian Rosewodd is to Indian Rosewood. Not sure what that means exactly but I'm taking it to mean that it's more awesomer than Brazilian. Besides I think they will look bad ass too......

 

 

I'm thinking a 225 driver, new wood inner, and African Blackwood outer, but first I need some wood.

 

 


Edited by KneelJung - 3/11/11 at 8:07pm
post #2123 of 5003

Hello, folks, need your guidance.  I've vented 2 holes and, while the bass increase is a nice change of pace, sometimes it is too boomy for me.  I covered up the holes again to compare and I definitely prefer vented; it even seems to make other parts of the freq. range more, uh...limber, effortless, less boxy, something like that.  From following this thread, as I understand it, to reduce the boom in the bass, I can either:

 

1.  Damp the magnet, felt the outer shells, remove button.

 

2.  Full on liberate the drivers, like John Dillinger, and get my wood on.

 

I've tried the first option and, while the bass is more controlled with similar depth, I feel like the highs become boring and un325-like (doh, forgot to say I am listening on 325is).  Then am I left with option 2 or have I missed a fundamental detail?  Thanks, folks.

 

{edited}  I should also add that I have tinnitus and cannot hear above 16kHz.  Perhaps I should not be so picky.


Edited by eujaee - 3/11/11 at 6:46pm
post #2124 of 5003



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeonepsilon View Post

What's the best way to get the holed ring covering the driver off?

 

 

Flip the driver grill side down on your bench and tap a jewelers size flat head screwdriver (or similar tool) around the drivers perimeter (between the drivers edge and the grill cap lip) using a hammer. The grill cap will then "pop" off.

 

Good luck, Bill.


Edited by Big Bill - 3/11/11 at 8:58pm
post #2125 of 5003
eclein - It's not just you... My first thought with it was some octagonal pads that flare into diamonds on the edges. I have absolutely no idea how to cut the diamond angles yet though. As of now, the circles are priority (and oddly the hardest to figure out at first) just to be able to imitate some bowls.

Mk 2 cutter is done (increased strength of the cutter, and tension of the wire... a lot), Mk 1 circle is done (currently just a cylinder of foam, gotta get to the inner circle later) and I'm excited. I just have to make something that's easily replicated here first so I can get some cheapo bowls going. The bevel from the inner to outer rim is the first real challenge.
post #2126 of 5003

sml1226--you'll get it!!!

 

 

post #2127 of 5003



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eujaee View Post

Hello, folks, need your guidance.  I've vented 2 holes and, while the bass increase is a nice change of pace, sometimes it is too boomy for me.  I covered up the holes again to compare and I definitely prefer vented; it even seems to make other parts of the freq. range more, uh...limber, effortless, less boxy, something like that.  From following this thread, as I understand it, to reduce the boom in the bass, I can either:

 

1.  Damp the magnet, felt the outer shells, remove button.

 

2.  Full on liberate the drivers, like John Dillinger, and get my wood on.

 

I've tried the first option and, while the bass is more controlled with similar depth, I feel like the highs become boring and un325-like (doh, forgot to say I am listening on 325is).  Then am I left with option 2 or have I missed a fundamental detail?  Thanks, folks.

 

{edited}  I should also add that I have tinnitus and cannot hear above 16kHz.  Perhaps I should not be so picky.


 

From one 325is owner to another, I'd tell you right away that you almost certainly need to damp the magnet. Then, if you're still running the original aluminium shells of the 325is, please ditch the plastic ring in it. Grado supposedly put it there to hold the grills in place. I've removed them and I can tell you right away that the grills don't need those nasty plastic rings to hold them in place. Getting rid of the rings is the one biggest improvement I have heard as the drivers now actually make "contact" with the aluminium shell.

 

And do take out that white grill cloth...the sound flows more effortlessly and as a result, the whole spectrum becomes less restraint, especially the magical highs of the 325is.

 

For the record, ever since I put on cocobolo shells for the 325is, I can honestly tell you that there is no going back for me. The organic sound which I longed so much for was missing from the aluminium shells. To me, the organic sound was something the 325is lacked. Since you only vented two holes, I will also tell you that they are just right if you plan to shell them up with cocobolos someday. 3 holes tend to boom with some songs and 4, it's just too much everywhere. It became such a dark sounding can to a point you start asking, where the hell all the PRaT went to?

 

Good luck dude.
 

 

post #2128 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclein View Post

sml1226--you'll get it!!!

 

 


I sure hope so. The foam stinks though when it's being cut and stays kinda smelly and sticky after your done. getting it wet gets rid of the stickiness, but I think I actually have to wash them to get the smell out.

Hopefully my cups show up tomorrow so I can get the whole modding craziness going full swing.
post #2129 of 5003
Thread Starter 

Hey, everybody.  I feel like I'm tweeting this but I just wanted to let you know that my communication is going to be a bit spotty for the next little while.  I promise I haven't run to Mexico with the milk money (in search of great cocobolo wood).  My one-year-old grandson has pneumonia.  Last night, before he went off with his mother, he was burning up with a fever.  Now my six-year-old has a fever and is uber-lethargic.  We are, of course, going to be staying on top of that situation, so if you don't get a huge bookish posting from me for the next little while, that's why.

 

As Schwarzenegger would say, "I'll be back."  Keep the light on till I do.

post #2130 of 5003
I hope that all gets better soon Bill.

And now, the moment I've been waiting 2 days for... My first attempt at some bowls is done! They're pretty rough this time around, and they aren't the prettiest color anyway, but they do sound better than comfies I must say. Less thump in the bass, but it's still there and the big hole in the middle cleared them up a good bit. They need work, but we're headed in the right direction toward a cheap alternative to Grado pads.

Comfies are next to it for a reference, not a good one with the blur and the angle, but that's what I've got for now.
0312111156.jpg
Sorry about the terrible picture quality, I'm to lazy to get a real camera out and my phone is right here.
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