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SR60-Mod - Page 106  

post #1576 of 5003

You have to instruct to a machining. I go to a little company that manufactured aluminium pieces for aeronautic for example. And the caoba pieces made me a carpinter specialist in turner, around, i dont know how you say. I live in Chiclana, Cádiz, Andalucía. It cost around 45€ pair because we instruct 20 pairs.

https://picasaweb.google.com/franciscocabillasmartinez/LaBatallaDeLosClonesDeRA1#5533510169784033282

https://picasaweb.google.com/franciscocabillasmartinez/CopasPropiasParaMisGrado?authkey=Gv1sRgCPrT0oPyldObUA#5464577281989210626

 

from Spain for the world!

post #1577 of 5003

Olá desde Portugal Cabillas!

Great pictures and loads of quality on that guys work. I expect there are a lot of happy campers in Spain with all that stuff.

 

I have to check out your forum although may spanish needs a LOT of work :)

post #1578 of 5003
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by CABILLAS View Post

 

I have nothing but the utmost respect and awe for the quality of this work.  It leaves me feeling as if I'd just had a religious experience.  If King Kong ain't got nothin' on Denzel Washington, Grado ain't got nothing on the Spaniards.  Me impresa tanto que no me deja sin palabra ni aliento.

post #1579 of 5003
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by BobSaysHi View Post

OK, so I've been thinking, and I think I've run out of easy things to do to improve the sound. I can only think of adding more wood, but there's still a limit. The last thing I can think of is angling the driver similar to the way the T1 and HD800 angle their drivers. I haven't the faintest clue how to do it though, but that's the exciting part. biggrin.gif

 

The simplest way I can think is to make some sort of platform out of wood and use the DT880 series pads. Like have a little more wood on one side and less on the other to achieve an angle. I say the DT880 pads simply because they are large enough to angle the driver with, and cost less than $50, and are comfortable as hell. It'd require a lot of work, but I think it'd pay off.

 

Any thoughts on this, Bill? I know you've owned the HD800, do you think it's worth doing?

 

Does anyone know the angle that either the T1 or HD800 angles their drivers at?

 

EDIT: here are a couple artsy-fartsy pics of the T1 so you can get the idea of what I'm trying to say.

 

rsz_beyerdynamic_t1_driver_v2.jpg

 

rsz_beyerdynamic_t1_driver_side.jpg

 

EDIT2: I guess it wouldn't fit correctly on the headband after being angled either... I need to put a bit more thought into this, it's going to be tricky.

 

EDIT3: According to this thread the HD800 is angled at 45 degrees and the T1 driver is angled at 15 degrees.

 

Here are my two cents, for what it's worth.

 

When you wear supraaural cushions, you are already angling the drivers to make them sit flush with ears that are angled.  When headphone manufacturers speak of angling the drivers, they are speaking of running them off-axis so the aim is less point blanc and more angled with more of the sound reflected.  Ironically, when you wear jumbos, which sit flush to your skull rather than your ears, you're already angling the drivers, which may be why Grado has sometimes suggested moving them forward or back, up or down, which gives you an adjustment in terms of exactly where you position these slightly off-axis drivers.  

 

Having owned the GS/PS1000s, the HD800 and the T1, I'm more inclined to see the "angled driver" angle as just one more thing to grab the public.  Then again, there may be something to it.  I did something with a pair of computer speakers, having them aimed off-axis, where I ended up with at least the perception of a much wider soundstage.  But those were drivers whose backwave had been contained by the speaker cabinet.  I've tried to replicate this exact experience with Grados and found that the backwave interfered with my attempts.

 

The HD800 has the largest soundstage of any headphone I've purchased but that has little to do with the angle of the driver, which is only angled to orient it toward the ear - because the circumaural shell is flush with the skull.  Much of its spaciousness has to do with suspending the driver above the ear and removing the normal seal blamed for standing waves.  In this respect, Sennheiser was scooped by AKG, whose K1000 was doing it before anybody else.

 

You can create this same effect with a Grado and laugh in the face of the HD800 by throwing out the cushion and building a semi-permeable cage.  Grado, in fact, does something like this with its jumbo pads, which are porous and transparent, making them a foamy cage of sort.  The HD800 has an open, plastic cage which it fills it with a metal mesh fabric that negotiates a compromise between K1000 spaciousness and the need for some actual bass.  This you can do.  I've talked about it, hinted it, started on it, but have yet to actually do.  I'd love to see somebody take the lead on it.

 

The whole reason for the HD800's "revolutionary" driver - with the ring magnet and doughnut-holed diaphragm (which is technically "larger" - at 55mm - but not so much so when you consider the big hole in the middle) is to avoid cone breakup by avoiding a cone.  Why?  Because you have to crank and crank and crank this driver to get any bass.  That's the reason for the HF suckout and the filter.  It's also why so many HD800 owners end up buying better amps and premium cables.  To get that sense of space you have to be willing to kiss off a lot of bass.  The HD800 drivers are meant to hum like a mother in order to produce their trademark sound.  The downside is a lack of bass slam.  The upshot is really nice grumble and a very spacious soundstage.  Angling the drivers doesn't really have much to do with it, especially since the HD800 is angling them to orient them toward the ear - unlike Ultrasone with its holy holy-plate S-logic game.

 

Ironically, while the T1 does angle the driver, it has less soundstage than the HD800 because it employes a smaller, oval-shaped set of cups which constrict the "concert hall."  The result is a warmer, thumpier, presentation but one I never liked as much as the HD800's.  I do think, however, that the whole Grado pad arrangement could be thrown out and replaced with something better than foam.

 

Just my two cents.  I'm not trying to respond to anti-Grado nastiness with pro-Grado nastiness.  I think the HD800 and T1 are wonderful headphones and their quality is undisputed.  What I dispute is the claim that either headphone represents much in the way of "revolutionary technology."  I don't think of a ring magnet and a doughnut hole as "revolutionary technology," but then again, every dog has its day - and its due.  It was, at least, a clever way to reduce cone breakup and unwanted resonance.  If Grado could have done it - consistent with his product line - I'm sure he would have considered it.  He didn't and now he's got to clean up the fallout.  Perception has a tendency to dominate reality.

 

Creating a pad replacement, not just another pad, would be a neat trick.  Pads are needed for decent bass but that seal does mute the high end.  How one gets the best of both worlds is quite a topic worth exploring.

post #1580 of 5003

This is the latest experiment. Finaly got a set of sr60is to try partialy liberating the driver. I mounted the driver in the lathe and just cut the outer holder off. Only had time to make one side, and the finish is still raw off the lathe.

 

D300-6209.jpg

D300-6208.jpg

post #1581 of 5003

Wow.

post #1582 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by edd9000 View Post

This is the latest experiment. Finaly got a set of sr60is to try partialy liberating the driver. I mounted the driver in the lathe and just cut the outer holder off. Only had time to make one side, and the finish is still raw off the lathe.

 

D300-6209.jpg

D300-6208.jpg


Wow... That looks amazing.
The only thing I'd do to that is get a somewhat shinier screen to match that nice shiny housing.
post #1583 of 5003

Okay, so the other day I told my dad that I needed some higher-quality holesaws. So today he goes out and buys 3 at £15 each and an arbor at £17. That's £62 (~$100) in total.

 

These saws had better damn well cut the wood like butter.

post #1584 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by sml1226 View Post



Wow... That looks amazing.
The only thing I'd do to that is get a somewhat shinier screen to match that nice shiny housing.


Probably just the angle or my filthy hands after quick assembly but its shiney stainless steel.
 

post #1585 of 5003
Must be a shadow then. Regardless, they look great
post #1586 of 5003
Thread Starter 

 

Originally Posted by edd9000 View Post

This is the latest experiment. Finaly got a set of sr60is to try partialy liberating the driver. I mounted the driver in the lathe and just cut the outer holder off. Only had time to make one side, and the finish is still raw off the lathe.

 

D300-6209.jpg

D300-6208.jpg


I leave you alone two minutes and look what you get into.

post #1587 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post

 

 

Here are my two cents, for what it's worth.

 

When you wear supraaural cushions, you are already angling the drivers to make them sit flush with ears that are angled.  When headphone manufacturers speak of angling the drivers, they are speaking of running them off-axis so the aim is less point blanc and more angled with more of the sound reflected.  Ironically, when you wear jumbos, which sit flush to your skull rather than your ears, you're already angling the drivers, which may be why Grado has sometimes suggested moving them forward or back, up or down, which gives you an adjustment in terms of exactly where you position these slightly off-axis drivers.  

 

Having owned the GS/PS1000s, the HD800 and the T1, I'm more inclined to see the "angled driver" angle as just one more thing to grab the public.  Then again, there may be something to it.  I did something with a pair of computer speakers, having them aimed off-axis, where I ended up with at least the perception of a much wider soundstage.  But those were drivers whose backwave had been contained by the speaker cabinet.  I've tried to replicate this exact experience with Grados and found that the backwave interfered with my attempts.

 

The HD800 has the largest soundstage of any headphone I've purchased but that has little to do with the angle of the driver, which is only angled to orient it toward the ear - because the circumaural shell is flush with the skull.  Much of its spaciousness has to do with suspending the driver above the ear and removing the normal seal blamed for standing waves.  In this respect, Sennheiser was scooped by AKG, whose K1000 was doing it before anybody else.

 

You can create this same effect with a Grado and laugh in the face of the HD800 by throwing out the cushion and building a semi-permeable cage.  Grado, in fact, does something like this with its jumbo pads, which are porous and transparent, making them a foamy cage of sort.  The HD800 has an open, plastic cage which it fills it with a metal mesh fabric that negotiates a compromise between K1000 spaciousness and the need for some actual bass.  This you can do.  I've talked about it, hinted it, started on it, but have yet to actually do.  I'd love to see somebody take the lead on it.

 

The whole reason for the HD800's "revolutionary" driver - with the ring magnet and doughnut-holed diaphragm (which is technically "larger" - at 55mm - but not so much so when you consider the big hole in the middle) is to avoid cone breakup by avoiding a cone.  Why?  Because you have to crank and crank and crank this driver to get any bass.  That's the reason for the HF suckout and the filter.  It's also why so many HD800 owners end up buying better amps and premium cables.  To get that sense of space you have to be willing to kiss off a lot of bass.  The HD800 drivers are meant to hum like a mother in order to produce their trademark sound.  The downside is a lack of bass slam.  The upshot is really nice grumble and a very spacious soundstage.  Angling the drivers doesn't really have much to do with it, especially since the HD800 is angling them to orient them toward the ear - unlike Ultrasone with its holy holy-plate S-logic game.

 

Ironically, while the T1 does angle the driver, it has less soundstage than the HD800 because it employes a smaller, oval-shaped set of cups which constrict the "concert hall."  The result is a warmer, thumpier, presentation but one I never liked as much as the HD800's.  I do think, however, that the whole Grado pad arrangement could be thrown out and replaced with something better than foam.

 

Just my two cents.  I'm not trying to respond to anti-Grado nastiness with pro-Grado nastiness.  I think the HD800 and T1 are wonderful headphones and their quality is undisputed.  What I dispute is the claim that either headphone represents much in the way of "revolutionary technology."  I don't think of a ring magnet and a doughnut hole as "revolutionary technology," but then again, every dog has its day - and its due.  It was, at least, a clever way to reduce cone breakup and unwanted resonance.  If Grado could have done it - consistent with his product line - I'm sure he would have considered it.  He didn't and now he's got to clean up the fallout.  Perception has a tendency to dominate reality.

 

Creating a pad replacement, not just another pad, would be a neat trick.  Pads are needed for decent bass but that seal does mute the high end.  How one gets the best of both worlds is quite a topic worth exploring.


OK, so as I said, I finished my HD650 pad mod last night, and at first the sound wasn't very good (muffled), however after moving the driver up a bit the sound bloomed. The driver sits parallel to my head, as you mentioned, and the soundstage is dramatically increased. It's on par with my HD650s in soundstage. All of this, without killing any part of the sound. It's identical with and without pads, except for the soundstage. Not to mention the comfort is fantastic. Grados have always given me problems, and I typically just tough it out, but now I don't have to anymore. Here are some pics I took last night.

 

photo 1 (13).JPG

 

photo 2 (13).JPG

 

photo 3 (8).JPG

 

I think I'll try to create that cage that you talked about.

post #1588 of 5003

I finally think that wood is better.

I threw away the aluminum full body weight and bright sound, although it looks beautiful, wood brings warmth and is very light.

 

Thanks again for your coments from the south of Spain to all.

post #1589 of 5003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post

Guys, I'm flattered and confused.  Which shells are we talking about?

 

To remove the cups on the 325, go to the hole where the cable is fed.  There you'll find the plastic and the aluminum forming two halves of the hole.  There is where you can leverage the right sized flathead screwdriver to wedge the cups apart.  It's easier than it looks.  If nothing else, it beats the spoon method.  If memory serves, there's nothing holding the metal on except friction itself.  I don't remember battling any glue.

 

After opening and venting my MS1(000), I finally mustered up the courage to open my 325i and remove the plastic rings. My experience is quite the opposite of Bila, loads and loads of glue! I tried wedging the cups off with a wooden implement (disposable chopsticks) but got nowhere. Heated one cup with a hairdryer and got some movement, more heat and a bit of force finally separated the pieces. Inside there was glue all over, all the way round glue was partially covering the inside walls of the plastic driver holder. The plastic rings were difficult to remove too, with the driver out, I heated the metal cup to barely touchable and wedged the rings out with a plastic pen, the whole procedure didn't leave a mark on the plastic or metal thankfully. Wash, rinse, repeat.... next driver, took the best part of an hour to do both, remove the rings and all the glue from the insides. No venting this time round. Each 325 is numbered on the plastic driver housing, I found the same number written in permanent ink on the inside of the metal cup.

 

After putting the drivers into the cups I found they didn't fit snugly, without the glue and rings in place, the drivers slid all the way to the cable, putting pressure on it. I ended up taping up the outside of the plastic to get a larger diameter, they fit snugly now, though I'm not happy there is tape layer between the plastic and metal now.

 

First impressions: This is a different beast! The removal of not only the rings, but also glue have created a crispness I have never heard before with any can. Far more detail now, very clean sounding; They have become slightly brighter now although a bit more sibilant too. Might vent at some point, and definitely going to look for some wood at some point too. I currently have a SR80 too, so it would be fun comparing the 80, MS1 and the 325 in different configurations. 

post #1590 of 5003

Nice work!


When I had the SR325s on loan I really liked them with some music, but 80% of the time I found them to be too bright and aggressive. They also weren't the best match with the Little Dot I had then. btw. Anyway, from what I heard with the MS1000 after I vented the drivers I think you can smooth the SR325s out nicely. Perhaps I will listen to your modded SR325 at the upcoming meet. :-)

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