Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › New ESS Sabre32 (ES9018) based DAC from Audio-gd....the NFB-1
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New ESS Sabre32 (ES9018) based DAC from Audio-gd....the NFB-1 - Page 14

post #196 of 606


Quote:
Originally Posted by borrego View Post

The ACSS is something Kingwa really proud of. Will like to know the SNR comparison between the RE7 and RE8 which does not use ACSS.

 

I read somewhere about the Audiolab company was implementing the ES9018 chip in their latest DAC. The Audiolab designer stated the most SNR they can get out from the ES9018 after I/V conversion was 117db, using what they called the "balanced active voltage ground?", or something like that... while the NFB7 can do 122db from its ACSS XLR.


What do you mean from its ACSS XLR?  It is either XLR or ACSS.  One is voltage, one is current.

post #197 of 606


Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post




What do you mean from its ACSS XLR?  It is either XLR or ACSS.  One is voltage, one is current.


I apologize for the confusion made. What I meant by the "ACSS XLR" was the Audio-gd XLR output where the XLR outputs were driven by the internal ACSS modules until the final output stage.

 

quoted from the Audio-gd site: "The NFB-1 is a real balanced output DAC, it has XLR (balanced), RCA (single-ended), and ACSS output. There are 4 ACSS modules in the NFB-1 for balanced output, and all the ACSS modules have balanced input, so even through RCA output, the ES9018 DA chip will perform fully. "

post #198 of 606

The difference between 117db and 122db SNR is like splitting atoms for all you'll hear. 46db SNR is a 200:1 difference and is not audible. I feel like a stuck record here.

post #199 of 606


Quote:
Originally Posted by tim3320070 View Post

The difference between 117db and 122db SNR is like splitting atoms for all you'll hear. 46db SNR is a 200:1 difference and is not audible. I feel like a stuck record here.


x2.

 

I totally agree with you. It is not possible for any human being to hear a difference between 117db and 122db under normal conditions. It is like saying that you can hear a fly when you are a few feets away from a jet that is taking off.

The main differences we hear between DACs are neither the SNR nor the THD figures. Usually they are low enough that they are not audible (they are audible by bats perhaps but not by humans). The differences that are heard are mostly in the time domain which is difficult to explain and not often measured.

 

Since we don't usually need more 100db (CDs have a maximum SNR of 96db, most recordings even high rez one have actual dynamic range that is far less than that), it is wortheless in my opinion to compare SNR figures of 117db vs. 122db.

 

If I make a car analogy, it is like if you are comparing 2 cars (A and B) on a track where the maximum speed is around 250 and saying that car A can do 300 an car B 350. What is more relevant would be to know which one has the best acceleration, handling, braking... If car A can accelerate, brake, and turn around corners faster, it will undoubtedly beat car B even if car B has a higher speed.

 

In a similar manner, if the dac that has 117db figure has much better time domain performance than the dac that has 122 db, it can crash under real world utilization.

post #200 of 606

Man... I am seeing myself pulling the trigger on the NFB-7 and a Phoenix sometime soon...

 

The fact some see R2R as better kinda worries be, but at the end of the day, its not like it is going to sound bad, right?

 

I don't mind "digital" sound as people put it. I am a child of the digital era, I have seldom heard a vinyl player. Plus, the differences can't be that drastic.

 

Seems to be like it is a good 400$ saved over the Ref-7

 

Kingwa said Ref 7 was more analogue, but NFB-7 had better dynamics...

 

final price for phoenix and NFB-7 is like 2500


Edited by sokolov91 - 9/8/10 at 2:04am
post #201 of 606


Quote:
Originally Posted by tim3320070 View Post

The difference between 117db and 122db SNR is like splitting atoms for all you'll hear. 46db SNR is a 200:1 difference and is not audible. I feel like a stuck record here.


nono I fully understand these measurements are to the point they don't even matter anymore, I get that.

 

Still makes it look better on paper though, that is all. And when it goes so good our ears and can't tell the difference, well you either don't buy, or go by specs.

post #202 of 606

I have to say that I didn't quite dig the sound of the Sabre-based Buffalo24 that I tested back then mainly because of how sterile it seemed to my ears. It will be interesting to see how Kingwa's newest invention will play out.

post #203 of 606

I said earlier I would ask Kingwa to send me his Chinese description of ES9018 vs pcm1704 so I could get a friend to translate, but they're taking their time :p, will let you guys know when I finally do get it.

post #204 of 606

^Haloxt, I look forward to you letting us in on your findings. They may impact many potential buyers.

 

I've got a local meet coming up in November. One of the members will be bringing along a ref 7. I feel like this could be the perfect opportunity to invest in a nfb-7 in order to compare head to head.

post #205 of 606

I have a Reference 7 usb He and a Reference 1. I have a NFB-7 on order. I will feed back a comparison. To me the reference 1 sounds pretty near to identical to the reference 7 (non HE on acss outputs).

 

The NFB-7 certainly does seem a bargain. I will know soon.

 

Regards

 

Macrog

post #206 of 606


Quote:
Originally Posted by macrog View Post

I have a Reference 7 usb He and a Reference 1. I have a NFB-7 on order. I will feed back a comparison. To me the reference 1 sounds pretty near to identical to the reference 7 (non HE on acss outputs).

 

The NFB-7 certainly does seem a bargain. I will know soon.

 

Regards

 

Macrog


You, sir, are a gentleman and scholar.

 

Do post your impressions! 

post #207 of 606

Audio-gd made a list of differences between NFB-1 and Ref 5, I fixed up the grammar with the help of some computer translators and sent it to my friend yesterday but said he'd help in 1-2 days because he's traveling. Meanwhile I'll share the drafts right now, maybe someone who reads both languages and knows audiophile expressions can help me with more exact meaning, as my friend who is helping me knows both languages but not audiophile expressions.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1QyP4UnwZqoZh2jNqyJ2ZPE5ez1r3g0GuHFYSRWShO2I&hl=en&authkey=CKSQuhI

post #208 of 606

haloxt: It might be similar to the differences between the PMD100, which was very smooth and rather "warm", compared to the DSP-1, which gives a more lively sound, but without harshness.

post #209 of 606


Quote:
Originally Posted by haloxt View Post

Audio-gd made a list of differences between NFB-1 and Ref 5, I fixed up the grammar with the help of some computer translators and sent it to my friend yesterday but said he'd help in 1-2 days because he's traveling. Meanwhile I'll share the drafts right now, maybe someone who reads both languages and knows audiophile expressions can help me with more exact meaning, as my friend who is helping me knows both languages but not audiophile expressions.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1QyP4UnwZqoZh2jNqyJ2ZPE5ez1r3g0GuHFYSRWShO2I&hl=en&authkey=CKSQuhI


You got the meaning of the translation is correct, it just need some fine tune on the wording.

 

Well done!

 


 

post #210 of 606



Nice Comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmychan View Post




You got the meaning of the translation is correct, it just need some fine tune on the wording.

 

Well done!

 


 

 

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › New ESS Sabre32 (ES9018) based DAC from Audio-gd....the NFB-1