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New ESS Sabre32 (ES9018) based DAC from Audio-gd....the NFB-1 - Page 8

post #106 of 607

Well, Wyred 4 Sound got my money this go around.

 

Tough choice, I am sure the NFB-1 is a solid choice as well.

post #107 of 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmzip View Post

Well, Wyred 4 Sound got my money this go around.

 

Tough choice, I am sure the NFB-1 is a solid choice as well.


Noooooooooooooooooooo! Say it ain't soooo! :P jk

post #108 of 607

Ah ... two additional NFB DACs (8741) are available: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB-2/NFB2EN.htm

post #109 of 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmzip View Post

Well, Wyred 4 Sound got my money this go around.

 

Tough choice, I am sure the NFB-1 is a solid choice as well.


The w4s dac 2 has toroidal transformer (not an r-core), and only has one. The nfb-1 has one transformer for the analog circuit, and one for the digital part. This alone shuold be quite a big difference (like dsp 19 vs. ref 5 maybe?, or just a little less).

post #110 of 607
cyan: you can't look at components that way and make arbitrary judgements like that. It isn't that simple.
post #111 of 607

If all things being equal, 2 R-core's vs. 1 toroidal should be better for sound though? Wouldn't you design it that way?

post #112 of 607

Didn't make an absolute statement, just said that there is a big possibility that at the psu at least is better. It wasn't really an arbitrary judgment, but do i really have to write "in my opinion" every time i write a post?

post #113 of 607

While from what I´ve read there are so many things that affect the sound other than the DAC chip itself, it´s also important that the Sabre32 getting closer to a "system on a chip" than traditional DAC chips (so in a way I´d say it can be argued that it´s possible to make such claims)

 

In theory at least as several key features are built-in such as the oversampling / jitter elimination / spdif receiver, different Sabre32 implementations should be closer to eachother than for example PCM1704-based DACs which have more variables. I´ve only found one review where the Reference 5 has been compared to a Sabre32 (W4S-DAC1), and the author by far prefered the Ref5... This is my main argument so far for getting Ref5 over the NFB-1. In case someone is wondering about that review, it can be found at http://ravenda.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/audiogd-reference5/

 

That said, noone has ever done Sabre32 like Kingwa is doing (Non-Feedback ACSS) so at this point all we can do is trust what he says (which is that it´s close to Ref5 quality, maybe even equal).


Edited by vrln - 8/26/10 at 7:18am
post #114 of 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

cyan: you can't look at components that way and make arbitrary judgements like that. It isn't that simple.


No its not that simple but its not really complicated either.  Plenty of clean regulated power is almost certainly a winner though...

 

But it does look like the W4S has more filtered power available:

 

AudioGD- More than 25,000uf audio grade NOVER capacitors are used to ensure ample and smooth power feed.

 

W4S - Robust 35A bridge rectified power-supply with 88,000uF of filtering

 

Granted they are but one link the chain, that being said I have heard 3watt amps that blow away 500w amps in terms of musicality.  It would be a nice shoot out.

post #115 of 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post



AudioGD- More than 25,000uf audio grade NOVER capacitors are used to ensure ample and smooth power feed.

 

W4S - Robust 35A bridge rectified power-supply with 88,000uF of filtering

 

Granted they are but one link the chain, that being said I have heard 3watt amps that blow away 500w amps in terms of musicality.  It would be a nice shoot out.

 

This caught my eye too... If the Reference 5 DSP really wins clearly over the W4S DAC1, I find it hard (on paper at least) to believe the NFB-1 can be as good as the one it´s semi-replacing (the Reference 5).
 

post #116 of 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrln View Post



 

This caught my eye too... If the Reference 5 DSP really wins clearly over the W4S DAC1, I find it hard (on paper at least) to believe the NFB-1 can be as good as the one it´s semi-replacing (the Reference 5).
 


Actually the Ref5 and the NFB-1 have the same r-core configuration, only difference is the the Ref5 has more PSU groups to filter the power, a total of 9 as suppose to 6 on the NFB-1.

 

I have had the Ref5 in my set up for a few weeks now and I have to say that it is fantastic.  It easily shines above every other Dac I have owned and heard in my system....Lavry, Havana, Apogee and some lesser Dac's.

post #117 of 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post




Actually the Ref5 and the NFB-1 have the same r-core configuration, only difference is the the Ref5 has more PSU groups to filter the power, a total of 9 as suppose to 6 on the NFB-1.

 

I have had the Ref5 in my set up for a few weeks now and I have to say that it is fantastic.  It easily shines above every other Dac I have owned and heard in my system....Lavry, Havana, Apogee and some lesser Dac's.

 

That´s why I find it so hard to believe the Sabre32 NFB-1 could be (almost) equal to the quad-chip Ref5 as Kingwa suggested. Especially if the Ref5 really reigns over the Sabre32 W4S as hard as the review I mentioned earlier suggests. Have you heard any of the Sabre32 DACs? I´d be interested to know how you think it compares to them.

 

Oh and if you have some spare time to help someone new to hifi, please post some detailed Ref5 sound signature comments on its thread... I´ve read through it all, but so far the review I talked about in my previous postings is the most comprehensive one I´ve found.

 

PS: Any comments on how source-critical the Ref5 is? In theory multibit DACs should be more resistant to jitter, but the Sabre32´s patented built-in jitter eliminator via oversampling should be really good too. So hard to choose :o
 

post #118 of 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynobotView Post

 

 

I have had the Ref5 in my set up for a few weeks now and I have to say that it is fantastic.  It easily shines above every other Dac I have owned and heard in my system....Lavry, Havana, Apogee and some lesser Dac's.


X2. I'm in exactly the same situation; got the REF5 now, before that the Havana, Meier Stagedac, Rega Apollo...No contest at all, all the other players had some strong and some weak points, the REF5 seems to do everything better, with no obvious weak points, I absolutely love.

Have to add though that the REF5 is the only source I used balanced. 
 

post #119 of 607



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vrln View Post

I´ve only found one review where the Reference 5 has been compared to a Sabre32 (W4S-DAC1), and the author by far prefered the Ref5... This is my main argument so far for getting Ref5 over the NFB-1. In case someone is wondering about that review, it can be found at http://ravenda.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/audiogd-reference5/

 

W4S compared to a 'Mid-Level' Audio GD Dac....perhaps a Ref 5? (starting at Post #46) .... http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100469

 


Edited by Tom W - 8/26/10 at 7:59am
post #120 of 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrln View Post



 

That´s why I find it so hard to believe the Sabre32 NFB-1 could be (almost) equal to the quad-chip Ref5 as Kingwa suggested. Especially if the Ref5 really reigns over the Sabre32 W4S as hard as the review I mentioned earlier suggests. Have you heard any of the Sabre32 DACs? I´d be interested to know how you think it compares to them.

 

Oh and if you have some spare time to help someone new to hifi, please post some detailed Ref5 sound signature comments on its thread... I´ve read through it all, but so far the review I talked about in my previous postings is the most comprehensive one I´ve found.

 

PS: Any comments on how source-critical the Ref5 is? In theory multibit DACs should be more resistant to jitter, but the Sabre32´s patented built-in jitter eliminator via oversampling should be really good too. So hard to choose :o
 

 

Sonic signature of the Ref5....wow where to start.

 

Low end is more detailed, more punchy when called upon, smoother when called upon than the Dacs i have listed.  This in my mind says they it does not lend its own sonic signature to the music because it lends itself to the musical passage ie smooth when called upon etc.  The vocals and soundstage are rock solid in depth and width, no blurring, no unrealistic huge holographic affects, we are talking a rock solid true to life musical image.  Highs are never harsh, but like the bass detailed and very real.  Just to give you a clue as to how real all octaves come through....over the past 7 years that we have had our dog, it only runs to the window to bark at UPS trucks, trash trucks etc. it never ever responds to my music or the television.  Honestly this is the very first time ever that our dog "thinks" other people are in the house when someone speaks or claps on a track and when low end passages come though she responds to them as well....barks and runs straight to the window looking for a truck.  This is not an exaggeration.  The differences are truly night and day, pianos reverberate with clarity just as a real piano should.  For example I am listening to the Havard Wiik Trio, upright bass, piano and drums.  Every instrument has its clear place in the soundstage not burred at all, the presence and attack is uncanny.  One person is plucking the upright bass and as it reverberates with its own pitch in volume you can easily hear the person in the background sliding his stick softly over the cymbals.  The musical passage comes though with emotion, just like when you go to listen to live music, you can feel the pulse of the music as it was intended vs. everything being at X volume level.

 

Hope that helps


Edited by Dynobot - 8/26/10 at 8:21am
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