List of DACs that work with iPad - Page 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodiini 

what ios version are you running?  the latest version 5 restricts current to 20 mA and the HRT uses 200mA, so I dont see how it will run without external power.

Didn't update to latest version yet w/ the restriction - luckily I have a buddy who is my ios Guru, as I don't pretend to know JACK when it comes to the changes,

and I'm ALWAYS suspicious of updating til Peter tells me its OK!!  I'm sure of number, will look and let ya know

it sounds fantastic!

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit 

What's the difference between the host mode adapter and the Apple CCK?

I'm honestly not sure.

I also tried using the Headstreamer w/ my standard CCK and it worked the same.

I just hear they're "basically" the same.

I could write HRT and try to find out

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict 

 

I replaced the Apogee mini-DAC with a Nuforce DAC-100 which works much better when amping my HD800, and have a Stello DA100 Signature to feed my maxed Woo WA6 and KGSS in the bedroom rig.  I'm still evaluating the DAC-100 RCA outputs when feeding better amps, but I miss having the balanced outputs so far.

 

I don't use the iPad with CCK much anymore because I'm using a Nuforce iDo to convert iPad digital out into coax S/PDIF and feeding that into the DAC-100.  I don't recall if I ever tried the iPad CCK into the mini-DAC via USB, but I do know it worked with the CEntrance DACmini.  There is no reason why it wouldn't work with any desktop USB DAC that doesn't draw too much power from the CCK.

 

The mini-DAC used as a DAC line-out feeding a nicer amp is probably still slightly better than my Stello DA100, especially via USB where the Stello USB isn't as good as optical or coax. The mini-DAC via USB is very good, and on the Mac I couldn't tell a difference between it's USB and it's optical.  So, changing FW to USB on the mini-DAC wouldn't be a downgrade.  

 

As for S/PDIF, I know the uDAC-1 worked with the iPad to offer Coax out from thge CCK > USB input, but I don't know if other USB > S/PDIF would draw too much power.  IT MAKES MORE SENSE to use a digital dock, like iPure, Wadia transport, or Nuforce iDo to get S/pdif out of the iPad with less jitter than the CCK.

TRUE

I have used the latest Wadia iTransport (170 doesn't support iPhone or iPad) to get to SPDIF - but its just too much to have on the desk, or my little spot in the

media room while my wife is listening to our stereo system.  I WISH I could use my Sonicweld Diverter!!  But I hear from engineers I trust that w/ the CCK kit

you're in host-mode, which is essentially Async  It's also nice and clean, barely any wires - and it plays for hours on my iPad2. I am a geek when it comes to battery-life

and preserving it.  I just wanted something simpler.  Like what Halverson did on the iStreaemer, is was leading-edge at the time, that was his own

Async, NOT Gordon Rankin's - though we know Gordon's about precision - Kevin's worked GREAT - but too many leads everywhere for me.

That's also why I love the Dragonfly for Macbook/Amarra listening.  No cable mess!!  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Ears 

Where are you located?? You should hear my car. There are issue in a  car with ground loops and such- but being able to use optical cables helps.

 

I have a 512gb SSD that I transplanted from a  Macbook Pro into a G-drive Mini (making it twice as much storage as there 256gb SSD) in a  tiny case. it is bus powered off of firewire/thunderbolt. Or off of USB.

 

The Apogee Mini DAC works from 6-14Vots DC! So it is perfect for the car. And when you get to work you pop it in a  bag and bring it to your desk...where you just leave your power supply plugged in.

 

I run Pure Music/itunes/apogee mini dac/Nkamichi TP-1200MK2 special shop/McIntosh 5 way 4 channel EQ and Crossover/6 band 4 channel McIntosh Parametric EQ/McIntosh MC4000m 6 channel 1000 watts +McIntosh 440M 6 channel 400 watts + (2) McIntosh 443M 300 watt mono blocks- into Scan Speak 12M 4.4 inch Revelator Midrange, and  Neodymium tweeters, and SB Acoustics 10 Inch flat subs wired with Analysis Plus speaker cable, + MIT Matrix interconnect.  I wrap the system in an E500 Mercedes (1994). Why so much wattage?? Well with first few watts of class A/B amplification it sounds like class A.  So you have to overkill in wattage to get that purity.  And McIntosh Amps S/N ratio is so good... you can get away with it.

 

It is awesome. I would never guess you could ever get sound like this in a car..it beats 95% of $30,000 home systems.

 

I'm selling that 512 SSD for $800 in the G-Drive Mini case if anyone wants it. I need a new computer more than a Drive.

 

Not a bad deal since the  256Gb is $1300.

 

http://www.vartotechnologies.com/G_DRIVE_mini_SSD_256GB_FireWire_USB_2_0_p/gdm4%20256.htm

 

Of course if there is a better DAC available with coaxial, Optical, AES/EBU, and USB or firewire inputs..I would switch..

That must be awesome! What are you running Pure off of, a macbook? 

I guess I should have searched more in the thread but quick question:

what's a good cheap DAC+amp combo that works with the new iPad on the go without any fussing around with hubs and whatnot?

if any? or is it going to be very expensive? I'm only planning to use with my ATH-CK100 In Ear Monitors so does not have to be very powerful.

I do notice a pretty substantial difference from my iPod Touch to using it with an amplifier... though I haven't gotten the iPad yet so I don't know if I will even need a DAC+amp. 

I'm mostly curious right now to see if there is any I can squeeze into budget.

thanks, and sorry!

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchzilla 

I guess I should have searched more in the thread but quick question:

what's a good cheap DAC+amp combo that works with the new iPad on the go without any fussing around with hubs and whatnot?

if any? or is it going to be very expensive? I'm only planning to use with my ATH-CK100 In Ear Monitors so does not have to be very powerful.

I do notice a pretty substantial difference from my iPod Touch to using it with an amplifier... though I haven't gotten the iPad yet so I don't know if I will even need a DAC+amp. 

I'm mostly curious right now to see if there is any I can squeeze into budget.

 

thanks, and sorry!

If it's got to be portable, I would only use the Pico DAC-only with any amp (even a mint-tin amp), or a Pico DAC/amp combo, because as I said before it just sounds smoother and more transparent than my other portable DAC's when combined with the camera connection kit.  My other portable DACs with iPad/CCK didn't really sound much better than a line out dock into an amp.  This is still not a really cheap option.  Getting an Algorythm Solo to take portable digital out would be even more expensive.

If it doesn't need to be portable, consider the Nuforce iDo which takes digital directly from the iPad and gives you (1) a decent headphone amp, plus (2) an RCA output with a decent built in DAC, and (3) a coax digital out to feed into a nicer DAC or your audio-video receiver.  This costs half what a Pico DAC and amp would cost, although the amp section is not as good.  Feeding the RCA out into a better amp, or the coax out into a better DAC and amp is an upgrade over the built-in headphone amp, so your rig can grow to be better as you save up more money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saeyedoc 

That must be awesome! What are you running Pure off of, a macbook? 

Yes just any macbook that is available.

I have to buy a new laptop and was thinking a a Macbook air 11" and wondered if there were any sonic differences between that and a retina 15" Macbook pro. The 11" Macbook Air would fit on my car armrest. I use 8gb of ram... and I wonder if having 16gb in a  retina Macbook Pro (also 750gb ssd) would offer any advantage. I stream off a 500GB SSD now using firewire 800 and daisy chaining the Apogee Mini DAC with a firewire 800-400 cable. I was wondering if I were to instead stream off my SSD with USB if that would be better to use separate Buses. But certainly as firewire can support many hi-rez streams at once... it might be insignificant. The limitations of USB streaming from the SSD might be worse than the gains of using separate firewire and usb buses. But I do not know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict 

 

If it's got to be portable, I would only use the Pico DAC-only with any amp (even a mint-tin amp), or a Pico DAC/amp combo, because as I said before it just sounds smoother and more transparent than my other portable DAC's when combined with the camera connection kit.  My other portable DACs with iPad/CCK didn't really sound much better than a line out dock into an amp.  This is still not a really cheap option.  Getting an Algorythm Solo to take portable digital out would be even more expensive.

 

If it doesn't need to be portable, consider the Nuforce iDo which takes digital directly from the iPad and gives you (1) a decent headphone amp, plus (2) an RCA output with a decent built in DAC, and (3) a coax digital out to feed into a nicer DAC or your audio-video receiver.  This costs half what a Pico DAC and amp would cost, although the amp section is not as good.  Feeding the RCA out into a better amp, or the coax out into a better DAC and amp is an upgrade over the built-in headphone amp, so your rig can grow to be better as you save up more money.

Does the Dragon Fly work? It does 24/96 as opposed to 24/48 of the Nuforce iDo I have not heard it... but I prefer the Apogee Mini DAC over the Lavry DA-11 and this Dragonfly was reviewed not to better the DA-11.... so it leaves me wondering  if it is a step forwards or backwards.  I'm wonder if an iPad/dragonfly would beat iPad/ALO LOD

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict 

 

If it's got to be portable, I would only use the Pico DAC-only with any amp (even a mint-tin amp), or a Pico DAC/amp combo, because as I said before it just sounds smoother and more transparent than my other portable DAC's when combined with the camera connection kit.  My other portable DACs with iPad/CCK didn't really sound much better than a line out dock into an amp.  This is still not a really cheap option.  Getting an Algorythm Solo to take portable digital out would be even more expensive.

 

If it doesn't need to be portable, consider the Nuforce iDo which takes digital directly from the iPad and gives you (1) a decent headphone amp, plus (2) an RCA output with a decent built in DAC, and (3) a coax digital out to feed into a nicer DAC or your audio-video receiver.  This costs half what a Pico DAC and amp would cost, although the amp section is not as good.  Feeding the RCA out into a better amp, or the coax out into a better DAC and amp is an upgrade over the built-in headphone amp, so your rig can grow to be better as you save up more money.

oh right, the pico works without the need for any USB hubs or so?

it's a bit of a budget stretch but I'll read about it and see! I'm on the lookout for something very sturdily built due to using it on the go, so a mint tin (cmoy) would perhaps not be the best option. however I have been eyeing the FiiO and such, which seem pretty good. comments on this?

has to be portable, so the other option is not possible unfortunately. I am planning to put it in my backpack and use it at work / while studying.

thanks a lot! 

I wish to built the VERY BEST SOUND possible portable set-up, using an iPAD to host my loseless files.

I real many threads here, and I still have few question:  

1 -  Is there still a "sound quality" advantage to use an expensive combinaison of SOLO+portable AMP (or Fostex HP-P1) instead of a  "simple" CCK plus a portable DAC/AMP ?

2 - If not, then, is there a less bulky alternative to the original Apple CCK that still will allow to extract the digital bytes from the iPad and pass it to a DAC ?   something with a less protuberant form factor (slimmer and with the USB cable going 90 degrees ? ) and may be providing  a better quality digital streaem (with less jitter ) ? 

3 - If the SOLO still has an advantage over the CCK cheap solution, then I am thinking using with it an ALO Continental or SR71b or ???   Price is not really an issue here, and the gear do not have to be super-miniaturised as long as they can fit behind an iPAD.  So may be there are some Bigger (still portable) solutions that offer better sound than those above mentioned  super small setup usually used with iPhone ?  any suggestion ? 

many many thanks in advance

bertrand

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmichels 

If you want the very best sound you need to start with the very best source= 24 bit files.

If you want a large collection of 24 bit music iPad internal storage is not enough, apps that play local files like Flac Player are less useful.

Streaming 24 bit-perfect audio files to iPad works only under specific configurations even at home, since any point in the chain could downsample data to 16/44 (most streaming to iPad apps downsample).

For portability everywhere you need a battery powered storage wi-fi server, just a few are avaiable for example:

Seagate GoFlex Satellite (500GB - DLNA capability but not fully certified)

Patriot Gauntlet Node (HDD of choice - no DLNA, stock software downsamples, SMB streaming possible for bit-perfect)

Buffalo MiniStation Air (500GB - not avaiable yet so no infos)

If you need more info on how to stream 24 bit perfect files to iPad look here http://www.head-fi.org/t/625493/ipad-with-24-bit-files-high-storage-capacity-portability-which-configuration-works-without-downsampling

Given above points to answer your questions:

Theorically a dedicated to iPad DAC is better (without CCK one less device in the chain). The Fostex HP-P1 is 16/48 limited. CLAS (DAC only) can do 24 bit with iPad like the upcoming Sony PHA-1 (DAC/Amp combo). The CLAS can be partnered with the best amp you find. There are also good USB DAC/Amp combo to use with CCK but gerenally they need a USB Hub or USB charger which pass data too (Apricorn USB Y cable can be used with any charger). The CCK can do bit-perfect data without problems look here to check measurements http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/feedback/newsletter/2011/06/1/ipad-streams-high-resolution-audio-dac1 .

Thanks Thraex for this detailled answer.  I will look also in the HD-Wifi solution for storage.

You seems to say that CCK output is "bit perfect" and as goos as a SOLO output.  Is it correct ?    

HearphoneAdict in a previuos thred says "IT MAKES MORE SENSE to use a digital dock, like iPure, Wadia transport, or Nuforce iDo to get S/pdif out of the iPad with less jitter than the CCK".     What do you think about this added Jitter coming from the CCK compared to a SOLO ou Fostex solution ? 

thanks

iPure and Wadia 1st generation downsample data, Nuforce iDo max 48Khz, Fostex is 16/44 limited, none mentioned are bit-perfect at any sample up to 96Khz and for me make no sense.

Bit-perfect means DAC receives same bit/freq of source file (no downsample/resample), digital jitter means smearing/blur of those data, bit-perfect is possible but it's impossible to have no jitter at all.

You need to consider that jitter is not only digital and not the only thing that matter, most PSU are so noisy that put any kind of jitter in any components of the circuit (analog and digital). I prefer a good digital jitter and battery powered iPad/CCK than a desktop DAC lower digital jitter AC powered cheap PSU.

To dig deeper, most DACs try to lower the jitter reclocking data with a buffer and variuos calculations, but some NOS (NotOverSampling) DACs are reported sounding more natural, their philosophy is that less you elaborate the digital signal better is.

For SPDIF out you need more circuit/connectors in the chain, USB in/converter to SPDIF/connector out/cable/connector to SPDIF in, I can't understand why CCK should be a bad alternative.

To recap, CCK is bit-perfect for USB DACs and its jitter is good enough to be compared to high-end devices, that doesn't mean jitter is zero and I don't know if its jitter is better or worst than Solo SPDIF out, but don't panic and focus on digital jitter only, at the end implementation of each piece in the chain from digital input to analog output matter more than specs or jitter measure only.

I think the iPad's jitter via CCK isn't a problem with a good DAC at the other end, one that can re-clock the data stream and eliminate jitter related audio issues.  

For portable USB DACs I think that means using something like the Pico DAC, which has an ASRC to up-sample and re-clock the data.  My iBasso D4 plugged into the macbook is nearly as good as the Pico DAC plugged into the Macbook.  When feeding another amp from their line-out I can't reliably pick which DAC I'm listening to.  But move them both over to the iPad with CCK and I really believe that my Pico DAC does a better job upgrading the sound, while the D4 doesn't sound much better than the line-out (which is still pretty good).  The only reason I can give for that is that maybe it's a jitter issue and the D4 doesn't handle jitter as well as the Pico.

I've successfully tried many USB DACs with the CCK and they all sound very nice, but at this point I'm not convinced that any of them other than the Pico is actually an upgrade over the iPad's built-in DAC.  Being bit-perfect doesn't mean jitter free.  Many different transports will have different levels of jitter, including CD and DVD players via coax out.

On the other hand, the digital iPod docks are designed to pull the raw digital data off the iPad storage, and then run it through it's own DAC, and I believe that eliminates a lot of the jitter issues as well.  When I play my Macbook > USB DACmini, and switch to my iPad > iDo coax out > DACmini I can't hear a difference in sound quality.  

While I have tried the iPad > CCK > DACmini in the past, and it sounded wonderful, I haven't tried a direct comparison to the iDo > DACmini.  However, the DACmini is such a good DAC that I suspect the CCK will sound pretty much the same, since it handles jitter very well.  Note - my PS Audio digital link III had fits from jitter with my 1st Gen Apple TV's optical out, but the DACmini handles the ATV perfectly without a glitch.

With Apples new iPhone 5 and all abandoning the 30 Pin connector for a 8 pin all digital dock, it would seem that the next iPad will logically  adopt the same connector and lose analog output....or use the headphone jack which has been moved to the bottom for analog out. 

So .... I'd hope the next generation (iPAd 4) will work with every DAC- though it would ahve been a lot simpler if it used a MINI USB like everyone else...(not happening).

I'd expect the upcoming IPad mini to use that new connector as well and also...likely move the headphone jack to the bottom with the exact same spacing of Headphone jack to dock .