Beyerdynamic DT 48 vs. Beyerdynamic DT 250 - Page 4

The DT 48's bass doesn't roll off. It extends flat down to 20Hz. However, our ears have a rolled off bass response, which is natural. Attempting to compensate for it would be unnatural.

That's very helpful...thanks. It sounds pretty bad to me too, with the dt48...very mid centric. It was mixed mostly with the 240DF, and once I got the k702 I made some changes. If I mixed it with the dt48, it would sound very boomy with the 702. That's the problem. Which one is neutral? The kicks sound fine, btw, with two headphones that are considered neutral by quite a few folks here...the k702 and the dt250 (I disagree about the 702). So back to the OP... if you want a headphone that is neutral/flat from the lowest lows to the highest highs you might as well start saving your nickles and dimes. You're probably not going to be totally satisfied unless you're prepared to spend over $1000.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelpearce 

Have you considered the DT150?  It has bass that is somewhat emphasized, but the rest of the spectrum is quite balanced and the treble isn't rolled off.

 

If you don't mind a cold, analytical headphone, the Ultrasone Pro 750 (kees modded) is also surprisingly balanced.

 

That track sounds terrible on my DT48E.  

 

I get deep enough bass, but clarity throughout the spectrum with my Pro 750.  It's very analytical, though, so not for everyone.

 

The DT150 sounds just about perfect.  Nails the bass, clear through the rest of the spectrum, and nice and bright at the high end.  

 

Fostex T50RP are definitely rolled off at the high end, but are a bit warmer and kill the harshness a bit.

 

Of the cans I have right here, though, it's the DBI Pro 700 that win out.  Kicking bass, sharp clarity... I'd like these headphones even more if I listened to music like this.

 

As it stands, I have to admit that I can't really imagine listening to that stuff for fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soaa- 

The DT 48's bass doesn't roll off. It extends flat down to 20Hz. However, our ears have a rolled off bass response, which is natural. Attempting to compensate for it would be unnatural.

You've got me a little confused. I thought music is mixed and mastered to sound good/natural to our ears...not to a frequency graph. 

Your track sounds fine with the DT48E, it's the one that the OP linked to that sounded terrible to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz 

That's very helpful...thanks. It sounds pretty bad to me too, with the dt48...very mid centric. It was mixed mostly with the 240DF, and once I got the k702 I made some changes. If I mixed it with the dt48, it would sound very boomy with the 702. That's the problem. Which one is neutral? The kicks sound fine, btw, with two headphones that are considered neutral by quite a few folks here...the k702 and the dt250 (I disagree about the 702). So back to the OP... if you want a headphone that is neutral/flat from the lowest lows to the highest highs you might as well start saving your nickles and dimes. You're probably not going to be totally satisfied unless you're prepared to spend over $1000.  

Glad you mentioned SineGen. Now I have a more accurate test for my dt48. I'm happy to report that they did better than I thought they would. The bass is pretty good down to around 65 or so ...after that the roll off starts. They're not bad even at 60. There's still bass at 50, but less than my other phones. Originally I thought it was more like 70 or even higher that the roll off started getting strong ...especially when listening at lower volumes, but with SineGen I'm getting pretty good bass all the way down to 65.
My apology if I mislead anyone. Still, if the OP is looking for neutral bass all the way down to 50 or lower, the dt48 may not be the phone for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelpearce 

Yeah, it sounded fine to me.  Using SineGen, I find mine are strong down to about 50hz, then they drop off pretty fast, and there isn't much left by about 35hz

 

In comparison, my Fostex T50RP start to drop at the same time, but are clearly audible to about 25hz.

 

In practice, though, I'm not sure this makes a huge difference.  Very little music has much energy down that low.

Yep.. Like the LCD2/HD800/HP1/2.. It really seems like he wants the perfect headphone.. All headphones have roll off/or emphasis/deemphasis of certain frequencies.. But for under a grand ther DT48 IS the one to get.. I can quote a K1000 owner who feels the the DT48 is more neutral.. & the K1000 bass has less roll off..Bass roll off doesn't make or break a neutral/flat/transparent headphone.. & many have no problem with the DT48 bass, which goes un noticed cause they are less vocal. I don't see Erik raising hell about the DT48 lack of bass! I would like less bass roll off, but it doesn't make or break the headphone for me... They were made this way for a purpose. No headphone maker would allow their headphones to have severe or mildly severe bass roll off unless they were meant for another purpose. The DT48 were never made for 'MUSICAL ENJOYMENT' or 'MUSICAL CORRECTNESS'.. This is why they are for a niche market, & strictly made for the pro market.. They been in production for 73 yrs cause they have a use outside of audiophiles & music lovers. You want a pleasing sound with pounding bass? There's always bose, Skullcandy, & others..
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz 

That's very helpful...thanks. It sounds pretty bad to me too, with the dt48...very mid centric. It was mixed mostly with the 240DF, and once I got the k702 I made some changes. If I mixed it with the dt48, it would sound very boomy with the 702. That's the problem. Which one is neutral? The kicks sound fine, btw, with two headphones that are considered neutral by quite a few folks here...the k702 and the dt250 (I disagree about the 702). So back to the OP... if you want a headphone that is neutral/flat from the lowest lows to the highest highs you might as well start saving your nickles and dimes. You're probably not going to be totally satisfied unless you're prepared to spend over $1000.  

I still want the HD800 or LCD2..

Off topic, but my friend totally misunderstood what I was telling him on the phone re: the impedance adapter. Now that I've clarified things, he's going to re-wire the transformers and get it done correctly. Maybe I'll finally get good bass all the way down to 50. I'd be a very happy guy since they do the mids much better than the 702...IMO, of course. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelpearce 

Your track sounds fine with the DT48E, it's the one that the OP linked to that sounded terrible to me.

 

Thanks for the clarification. How did the 2 kicks sound at 5 sec. into the song? The dt250 definitely goes lower....with the kicks, and also using SineGen.

The 70 or higher always seemed like BS to me.. Glad you confirmed this to be the case..

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz 

Glad you mentioned SineGen. Now I have a more accurate test for my dt48. I'm happy to report that they did better than I thought they would. The bass is pretty good down to around 65 or so ...after that the roll off starts. They're not bad even at 60. There's still bass at 50, but less than my other phones. Originally I thought it was more like 70 or even higher that the roll off started getting strong ...especially when listening at lower volumes, but with SineGen I'm getting pretty good bass all the way down to 65.
My apology if I mislead anyone. Still, if the OP is looking for neutral bass all the way down to 50 or lower, the dt48 may not be the phone for him.

 

I normally listen at pretty low volume, so relative to my other headphones the bass seemed really rolled off. It's still got quite a bit less bass than the dt250 even the mid bass. Those kicks I linked to are still very thin and rolled off sounding, so I guess it's the 60hz and below that's missing. Whether someone finds the dt48 bass light is pretty much subjective taste. The mid bass is at DF levels when listening at full volume. The midrange is still wowing me with some of my favorite 60's rock tunes. 

 

ote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice 

The 70 or higher always seemed like BS to me.. Glad you confirmed this to be the case..

 

Can't believe some people like Andrew think the DT48 mid range is 'average.' & one mermber actually said the mid range is recessed.. I don't get it.. I don't expect everyone to like or love the DT48, but those comments are pretty silly... Maybe the R10 mids are just ok, & the DT770 are bass lite.. To get better mids, meaning realistic, clear, & neutral, you would need to spend at least a grand, probably more.. Talking about dynamic headphones..

Theres a Natlie cole song that I never liked until I listened to them with the DT48.. The Piano, instruments, & here voice all sounds as realistic & being there as I'm typing this.. I actually like the song because of the DT48.. Forgot the title.. 1978 R&B hit.. But the piano at the start is eye watering worthy.. & her voice synergizes very well with the DT48.. The best I heard besides Linda Rodstad, & Donna Summer.. It's the type of recording you show off to impress your friend.. No compression at all, or very little at the very least.. Very well recorded in a good studio setting.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz 

I normally listen at pretty low volume, so relative to my other headphones the bass seemed really rolled off. It's still got quite a bit less bass than the dt250 even the mid bass. Those kicks I linked to are still very thin and rolled off sounding, so I guess it's the 60hz and below that's missing. Whether someone finds the dt48 bass light is pretty much subjective taste. The mid bass is at DF levels when listening at full volume. The midrange is still wowing me with some of my favorite 60's rock tunes. 

 

This youtube video is extremely compressed and sounds honky in the mids. The actual recording is much better.  

The DT48 with metal IMO is great.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic Atrocity 

Hmm, see I want a revealing headphone because I listen to a lot of really technical metal that has all kinds of subtleties that I cannot hear on average run-of-the-mill sound equipment. The DT48 E sounds great but the bass roll off just totally puts me off (I am a Meshuggah fan  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkrjE4QRsys). The DT 250 doesn't sound fitting for me because of the rolled off highs. I am starting to think I need to look elsewhere. Something else transparent, neutral, no roll offs, etc. 

Authenticity wise, I agree.. I just like more kick with my metal.. I still think atrocity is going a bit over board with the roll off..It's not that bad!! Or bad enough where you can't enjoy the music.. 50-60hz is fairly decent for a headphone..
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by EYEdROP 

This youtube video is extremely compressed and sounds honky in the mids. The actual recording is much better.  

 

The DT48 with metal IMO is great.
 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice 

Authenticity wise, I agree.. I just like more kick with my metal.. I still think atrocity is going a bit over board with the roll off..It's not that bad!! Or bad enough where you can't enjoy the music.. 50-60hz is fairly decent for a headphone..
 

 

Actually at sub-60 hz frequencies we are already talking about sub-bass. The lower you go the more the frequency is felt instead of hear, so even a headphone with perfect sub-bass reproduction wouldn't be able to reproduce the full body experience of those frequencies.

Just for reference of where instruments live there is this chart:

So for most instruments a sub-bass rolloff isn't as bad as to make a headphone unbearable or unenjoyable IMO.

Here is the link to the interactive chart.