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A few questions about Essence STX, Forte and CALs

post #1 of 52
8/14/10 at 7:53pm
Thread Starter 

Hi there

 

Last month i bought my first decent headphones and I settled to go for the soundcard next. I was thinking about getting the Asus Essence STX. I have a few questions about that:

 

1) Would that be overkill for a pair of Creative Aurvana Live or is it just fine? (i mean, would the cals bottleneck the card in some way?)

 

2) I have Win7 64, i know there are drivers for it, but am i doing good getting this model or should i get a newer one? (i mean, i believe win7 already does many features from dedicated old cards, dont know if it is the case)

 

3) In terms of positioning, will the essence improvement be only noticeable over the direction the sound is coming or will it also create a sound enviroment similar to that one in binaural recordings where the sound seems to be really placed in the room around you. I mean i aim to get that sound effect that makes you instictly turn the head sometimes thinking there is actually somebody behind you in your room.

 

4) will i get only front, back and side surround, or does it have any system  to recreate above and under? (again, like circumaural recordings, i was quite impressed with the sound positioning in those)

 

5) just to make it sure, i know the forte is better for gaming and the essence better for sound (or that's what everybody says, i presume it has something to do with features and not actual performance and sound quality), but is the forte better in music/movies than the essence in gaming? What is the overall best product? (i can get both for the similar price, the forte new and the essence from 3d hand)

 

6) anyone tested this one with Battlefield Bad Company 2? it seems that its the path future games sound is going for (probably BF3) and it seems the best gaming sound out to the date.

 

 

 

 

*     I'll be using the soundcard mainly as a source for my headphones (currently the CALs, probably the DT150 in the future ^^)

**    I'm actually more interested in sound quality, immersion and overal "WOW" jaw-dropping sound than in milimetric positioning, while i still want a decent positioning to be there for some online shooters.


Edited by nicolasete - 8/14/10 at 7:58pm
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post #2 of 52
8/14/10 at 9:33pm

Your endpoint will always bottleneck your dac. Even if it's onboard. And it's a Creative endpoint... rofl.

 

A/AD700 are pretty cheap, decent, and great for gaming. Should have got them instead, they cost about the same as the Creative. If you're going to spend $200, sell the Creative and instead go buy $300 headphones. The charts over at headphone.com are more useful than subjective reviews, but they're missing a lot of cans.

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post #3 of 52
8/15/10 at 12:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post

And it's a Creative endpoint... rofl.

 

A/AD700 are pretty cheap, decent, and great for gaming. Should have got them instead, they cost about the same as the Creative.


The AD700 cost double (its 69€ shipped for the CALs and 136+shipping for the ad700, both new) and as far as i'm concerned, the ad700 wont fit my primary goal of immersion since they lack bass. I hear they are great in positioning, but if they fail in the other fields they are not for me.

 

I have read a review somewhere in this site by an experienced guy who reviewed loads of cans, and he put the CALs like 4th in the list due to price/quality balance. Btw I learned about the existence of the CALs by headfiers' recommendations (since i was not willing to spend more money in the Beyer DT150 and the additional harware those would need to sound properly).

 

 

 

Anyways, I already got the cans, i dont think i can sell them for profit, so ill have to keep them, and that leaves me with the only option to improve my source gear. Thats why i ask all those questions. I neglected amps because the Cals are 32ohms and the soundcards already have built in amps if i decide to upgrade the cans, and im not ready sure that a DAC is what i need for my gaming/movies/music tastes.

 

 

Edit: I understand your point about upgrading the headphones, but the thing is that i do so and get my initial bet, the DT150, i would still have to buy additional source hardware to drive them (since they are 250ohms, and no, i dont think a 80ohm hp is the solution because even with my current 32 ohm cal plugged onboard i only get an average volume from it) so i will be in the same starting point of researching for new source hardware.


Edited by nicolasete - 8/15/10 at 1:05am
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post #4 of 52
8/15/10 at 1:07am

The closed AT's don't lack bass. And what they do lack can be eq'd a bit. Low-reaching bass (<40hz) is pointless in headphones anyways since it can't shake your body, it just gives you a headache instead.

 

Buying a dac isn't going to magically solve problems, you shouldn't spend over 10-20% of your endpoint's value on a dac. In your case, that's your $8 onboard audio.

 

I wouldn't consider the AT's a terribly big upgrade - but you should get $300+ headphones before worrying about a dac in any case. Headphones have horrible frequency response, even the $1400 ones - in the end they all need eq'd, so it's really a matter of which ones have less distortion. Check the charts on headphone.com.

 

Edit: With high impedance headphones you don't need to worry about an amp unless you need more volume.

Edit 2: Only moderate volume with 32 ohm? My AT's can crack my ears at 40% digital volume in windows (using my onboard). Even lower with my STX. I typically use around 15% on the slider..


Edited by Dalamar - 8/15/10 at 1:16am
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post #5 of 52
8/15/10 at 9:51am
Thread Starter 

Well, then i dont know what i'm doing wrong.

 

I know its not a headphone fault because if i plug it into my old Pioneer Stereo Receiver SX-P830 music sounds loud and nice. In fact, i have it connected to my onboard via a dual (red and white) RCA-to-headphone jack cable as some sort of amp i guess, but the sound is not that great (there is too much background noise in loud volumes and the bass are quite boomy/uncontrolled -i'm not yet used to all this audio tech chat in english-), but it just gives me that little extra volume my onboard does not provide (i have the volume set to less than 1/4 max power in the pioneer, setting it higher hurts)

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post #6 of 52
8/15/10 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolasete View Post

Hi there

 

Last month i bought my first decent headphones and I settled to go for the soundcard next. I was thinking about getting the Asus Essence STX. I have a few questions about that:

 

1) Would that be overkill for a pair of Creative Aurvana Live or is it just fine? (i mean, would the cals bottleneck the card in some way?)

 

2) I have Win7 64, i know there are drivers for it, but am i doing good getting this model or should i get a newer one? (i mean, i believe win7 already does many features from dedicated old cards, dont know if it is the case)

 

3) In terms of positioning, will the essence improvement be only noticeable over the direction the sound is coming or will it also create a sound enviroment similar to that one in binaural recordings where the sound seems to be really placed in the room around you. I mean i aim to get that sound effect that makes you instictly turn the head sometimes thinking there is actually somebody behind you in your room.

 

4) will i get only front, back and side surround, or does it have any system  to recreate above and under? (again, like circumaural recordings, i was quite impressed with the sound positioning in those)

 

5) just to make it sure, i know the forte is better for gaming and the essence better for sound (or that's what everybody says, i presume it has something to do with features and not actual performance and sound quality), but is the forte better in music/movies than the essence in gaming? What is the overall best product? (i can get both for the similar price, the forte new and the essence from 3d hand)

 

6) anyone tested this one with Battlefield Bad Company 2? it seems that its the path future games sound is going for (probably BF3) and it seems the best gaming sound out to the date.

 

 

 

 

*     I'll be using the soundcard mainly as a source for my headphones (currently the CALs, probably the DT150 in the future ^^)

**    I'm actually more interested in sound quality, immersion and overal "WOW" jaw-dropping sound than in milimetric positioning, while i still want a decent positioning to be there for some online shooters.



1.  Your headphones or speakers can always bottlekneck your source (DAC,card).

It is better to buy a great source first as tha will allow you to get the best quality from your headphones until you can get a better set.

2.  Either card you mentioned has driver for Win7 X64.

3. The STX will do both, allow you normal 2 channel audio over the headphones or you can use Dolby Headphone and expand the audio to get the sound "out of your head".  Some like it and some do not.  The Forte has CMSS-3D which is similar...

4. This question is a bit confusing.

5. The Forte is considered better for gaming because of the features it offers, such as EAX 1,2,3,4,5 and OpenAL.  Of course this depends on the games you play, if your games use no audio encoding options then pure sound quality is were it's at.

6. There is really no best product, just best for you.

 

Hope this helps.

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post #7 of 52
8/15/10 at 11:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post




4. This question is a bit confusing.

5. The Forte is considered better for gaming because of the features it offers, such as EAX 1,2,3,4,5 and OpenAL.  Of course this depends on the games you play, if your games use no audio encoding options then pure sound quality is were it's at.


Hope this helps.


Yes, your post was quite informative, thanks.

 

4. I mean that, with the exception of Binaural recordings, all the surround tests i have made (movies, games, etc)  only position sounds around you in a planar way, in 2d (so you can only hear if soldier is coming in front, behind, to your left or to your right, but you cannot tell if an helicopter is above you, or if a soldier is in the floor above or under yours, you just hear it coming in front -for isntance- of you and when it passes through the sound just switches from front to back, but you dont actually position it above or under you. In binaural recordings you feel sounds going down your back reallistically, for instance, in a 3Dish way.)

 

5. I know that the Essence does not support EAX (althought i think it does support OpenAL), but i read somewhere that it can actually emulate EAX up to 5. Didnt really research much in that way, the only EAX game that i can think of is BF2 and i dont play it anymore. Anyways, i dont really know what openal or eax do exactly.

 

 

Also, another question, if the soundcard allows Dolby Headphone, for instance, will it work even in games in wich you dont have that option? (games usually come only with headphone, speaker, hifi, and surround options, but no such techs as DH).

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post #8 of 52
8/15/10 at 11:52am

I see what you mean now. CMSS-3D for headphones hase elevation filters etc.

The games can also be encoded for flay bys etc, regardless of the card.

 

The Essence support EAX 1 and 2 stock and has GX mode which is useful for higher level games.  If you don;t play games that need the support then it is a moot point.

Dolby Headphones will work with any audio signal stereo to surround.  It was originally designed to virtualize surround sound info to headphones for movies.

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post #9 of 52
8/15/10 at 2:11pm

ROBSCIX gives lots of placebo-ridden bad advice, take it with a grain of salt.

 

IMO, EAX/GX is irrelevant - I play loads of FPS games and I always leave GX disabled. It tends to cause crashes anyways. CMSS probably makes a big difference, though. I've never gotten proper elevation positioning with my current setup.

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post #10 of 52
8/15/10 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolasete View Post


Yes, your post was quite informative, thanks.

 



No problem.  Considering I have actually tested both the STX and Forte, if you have any further questions let me know.

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post #11 of 52
8/15/10 at 3:00pm

 

 

Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post

I play loads of FPS games and I always leave GX disabled. It tends to cause crashes anyways.

 

 

Yes, if the STX drivers do something REALLY good....it's BSOD's 

 

Games don't need any GX/DH or other 3D-audio'ish bs, they run their own audio engines(reverb, localization, etc..) to boot.

 

Dalamar, we agree on a lot of things...it's just sad that you won't listen to middle/high end gear and blindly believe Asus bs that all that matters is good RMAA measurements. These are only indicators that the sound isn't distorted like hell, but it can still sound very harsh/mushy and metallic. Bad measurements mean that the sound will be very colored, but good ones don't prove anything.


Edited by leeperry - 8/15/10 at 7:39pm
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post #12 of 52
8/15/10 at 3:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post





No problem.  Considering I have actually tested both the STX and Forte, if you have any further questions let me know.

 

Ok thanks. I did actually read the reviews of these 2 that you wrote on Guru3d (didn't know you contributed there, they are guilty of my choice for some of my current pc hardware). I found them a bit too technical for me, but quite explanative in the end for the different music, movies and games tests you perform. I was surprised that you did not remark much in the big sound quality advantage the essence is told to have over the forte. That's in fact why i started considering the Forte too.

 

Btw, does the forte have a PCI (non express) version? i just realized that my Radeon HD4870 is filling my only PCI-E slot ¬¬.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

 

Yes, if the STX drivers do something REALLY good....it's BSOD's 

 

I will do some research to learn wth that is
 

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post #13 of 52
8/15/10 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolasete View Post

 

Ok thanks. I did actually read the reviews of these 2 that you wrote on Guru3d (didn't know you contributed there, they are guilty of my choice for some of my current pc hardware). I found them a bit too technical for me, but quite explanative in the end for the different music, movies and games tests you perform. I was surprised that you did not remark much in the big sound quality advantage the essence is told to have over the forte. That's in fact why i started considering the Forte too.

 

Btw, does the forte have a PCI (non express) version? i just realized that my Radeon HD4870 is filling my only PCI-E slot ¬¬.
 

I will do some research to learn wth that is
 



I don't really suggest one card over another because they are both great cards but aimed at different people. The Forte only comes in PCI-E version.  The Prelude is PCI, if you can find one. Forget Lee, he is trying to troll....Better ignored.


Edited by ROBSCIX - 8/15/10 at 3:43pm
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post #14 of 52
8/15/10 at 4:02pm

Blue Screen of Death. Never had one with my essence, but turning GX on can cause game crashes (though, not had a bsod or system crash).

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post #15 of 52
8/15/10 at 7:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post

Blue Screen of Death. Never had one with my essence, but turning GX on can cause game crashes (though, not had a bsod or system crash).


Oh, that thing.

 

It's actually called !"$%&!!!!!!!!! in Spanish.

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