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Audio-gd Reference 7 Loaner Program (USA) - Page 16

post #226 of 370
Thread Starter 

Glad to hear it worked out.  We'll have to put down Jude's issues with the optical to gremlins I think.  If the box and DAC have survived well by the time Uncle Erik receives it, we might have to see if Jude can't have another go with it.

post #227 of 370

Optical from my Mac Mini sounds very good with the Ref7, especially with the AyreWave software.  The only issue I've had with the optical connection is that the hole in the back of the Ref7 is too large and the optical cable doesn't lock in place.  It just sort of hangs there loosely so the slightest movement could pull it out.  I'm not sure if this is an issue with the cable or the hole on the DAC, but I've tried 2 optical cables (one Toslink to Toslink and one mini-Toslink to Toslink) and they've both had that issue.  My Ref7 doesn't have a standard optical jack with the flap like the pictures on the website shows, it's just a square hole basically.  Perhaps my unit was just a fluke since it was one of the first Ref7's made, but hopefully they put standard optical jacks on there now like the pics show.

post #228 of 370

Yikes!  What about the Exemplar XD-1?  Where does that fit into things?  Thanks :)

post #229 of 370

No pressure dude, but a lot of people are waiting.... :p

post #230 of 370

ipodpj, I think it's possible to insert an optical cable into audio-gd dac's and get it to hold, unless the optical plug is particularly small. It takes a little force to get normal optical plugs into normal optical inputs, it takes slightly more force to insert and get it to grip in audio-gd dac's. I didn't find out until several months of only a compass :p.

post #231 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by haloxt View Post

ipodpj, I think it's possible to insert an optical cable into audio-gd dac's and get it to hold, unless the optical plug is particularly small. It takes a little force to get normal optical plugs into normal optical inputs, it takes slightly more force to insert and get it to grip in audio-gd dac's. I didn't find out until several months of only a compass :p.


It's in all the way, there is no more room for it to go.  One of these days when I pull the DAC out I'll take a picture and show you.  But it's just a square hole.  It's not a standard optical jack.

 

The good news is that the optical receiver is very sensitive.  I can hold the cable as much as an inch away from the DAC and it still receives the signal.


Edited by IPodPJ - 11/23/10 at 11:24am
post #232 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by haloxt View Post

ipodpj, I think it's possible to insert an optical cable into audio-gd dac's and get it to hold, unless the optical plug is particularly small. It takes a little force to get normal optical plugs into normal optical inputs, it takes slightly more force to insert and get it to grip in audio-gd dac's. I didn't find out until several months of only a compass :p.


It's in all the way, there is no more room for it to go.  One of these days when I pull the DAC out I'll take a picture and show you.  But it's just a square hole.  It's not a standard optical jack.

 

The good news is that the optical receiver is very sensitive.  I can hold the cable as much as an inch away from the DAC and it still receives the signal.


But imagine the amount of jitter introduced from holding it by hand biggrin.gif

post #233 of 370

So where is Jude's review?

post #234 of 370
Quote:

But imagine the amount of jitter introduced from holding it by hand biggrin.gif


That's not how it works.  If it receives the signal, the DAC locks and it plays.  If it doesn't, the DAC won't lock and you hear nothing.

post #235 of 370

I was joking dude

post #236 of 370

No joking allowed here.

post #237 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_sure View Post

Experience are important and I think it is the main problem here not much comparisons only a big talking about Audio-gd.

I will not say what is the best or better dac (it is too much subjective words) but definitely one of the best dac these days is Forssell MDAC-2/MADA-2 no matter on price. It is competitive with everything according to many many people. It is approximately for 3000eur but it is still very cheap against DAD, Emm Lab, Lavry Gold etc. I do not know what high-end is maybe we have just differrent mean what quality or top sound is. Definitely not the Lavry DA10 and definitely not the Benchmark DAC1, it would be quite sad if DA10 was better than ref1/7. And also it is quite funny read that R2R dacs is better than Sigma Delta dacs. It tells maybe a smart guys who sure more read than listen. If money is not issue, to my ears is the best the Meitner player XDS-1, it is simpy terefic and sound is really out of my understand. I know two excellent dacs which is at price 1000-1500$ and are competitive with tops not quite absolutely in the league with Forssell etc but very very competitive, one is diy and one is commercial..I will not write tha names here because it is unknown to this community and things which is unknown here is mostly for many people only laugh as I saw many times.


Just because you do not hear R2R vs SD as better does not mean this is not actually the case. It does not mean it is true either, just your ears and personal perception have no absolute bearing on reality. A truly smart individual would be able to accept that what is best on paper is probably best, even if it does not sound that way to them. Saying it looks better on paper, but sounds worse, so it is worse, is flawed logic because you are using a subjective variable IE your taste.

 

As long as it has the capacity to be enjoyed by the individual, any DAC is good be it 5$ or millions.

 

Also, when discussion the Ref - 7 in the same sentence, none of those DACs are cheap or offer anywhere near the same bang for buck when you consider the components and execution of design. The only real caveat Audio GD has is its digital filtering and algorithms. The hardware side is near flawless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by not_sure View Post

Experience are important and I think it is the main problem here not much comparisons only a big talking about Audio-gd.

I will not say what is the best or better dac (it is too much subjective words) but definitely one of the best dac these days is Forssell MDAC-2/MADA-2 no matter on price. It is competitive with everything according to many many people. It is approximately for 3000eur but it is still very cheap against DAD, Emm Lab, Lavry Gold etc. I do not know what high-end is maybe we have just differrent mean what quality or top sound is. Definitely not the Lavry DA10 and definitely not the Benchmark DAC1, it would be quite sad if DA10 was better than ref1/7. And also it is quite funny read that R2R dacs is better than Sigma Delta dacs. It tells maybe a smart guys who sure more read than listen. If money is not issue, to my ears is the best the Meitner player XDS-1, it is simpy terefic and sound is really out of my understand. I know two excellent dacs which is at price 1000-1500$ and are competitive with tops not quite absolutely in the league with Forssell etc but very very competitive, one is diy and one is commercial..I will not write tha names here because it is unknown to this community and things which is unknown here is mostly for many people only laugh as I saw many times.


The Forssell is also very ugly IMO and from its looks it seems to be based for commercial use more than home use. Also, I think Lavry DA10 and ref 7 are pretty much the same and neither are high end. IMO audio-gd pays more attention to the parts being used rather than how those parts contribute to the sound. I agree with you that people who think R2R dacs is better than sigma delta in general read more than listen. Both have have their strengths and weaknesses. But I must say the best sounding dac I have heard yet is a sigma delta based dac. Anyway this thread is getting off topic.


This is obviously based on the fact good audio designers know little of electronics, but "listen" to caps and resistors and ultimately are capable of making a better product than those with advanced understanding of circuit design, and a lesser understanding of advertisement. Right? That is obviously why it is always in someones best interest to purchase a massive, brand name DAC that actually has very little inside save for a few overly expensive caps/resistors (that are actually not even proven to influence the sound). I mean, clearly, the more of a markup your product has, the better it will sound... right? Am I following your logic, because this is what I am reading? Who in their right mind would ever want a properly executed, over the top DAC design for cheap? Not I, because the designers don't know how to talk to resistors and caps like the brand name companies, and only then is the true performance unleashed.

 

Regardless of what you hear, you can't deny the Ref - 7 is an incredibly well designed DAC for an amazing price. While it might not be lined with unicorn hair, angle teeth, and gods sweat, it has the time invested in things that actually matter, like circuit design and build quality.

 

What you are actually doing is complementing audio GD if you realize it or not, because they are doing the right, rational thing - EE design, and not mumbo jumbo audiophoolery. Whether or not it sounds good to you has no bearing on how right or wrong their design practices are

 

Also, why do you constantly have to come and talk trash about audio-gd? you don't have to like them, but making stuff up is a bit ridiculous. If you do not like their products maybe you should discuss products you actually do like in their appropriate threads and/or create them if they do not exist.

post #238 of 370

 

Quote:
 

Also, why do you constantly have to come and talk trash about audio-gd? you don't have to like them, but making stuff up is a bit ridiculous. If you do not like their products maybe you should discuss products you actually do like in their appropriate threads and/or create them if they do not exist. 

 X lots.

post #239 of 370

sokolov91 I do not know what you are talking about and do not know what you are tryingpopcorn.gif

Firstly I have never heard Audio-gd dacs. Second my opinion about R2R and Sigma Delta or overal about chips is simple according to my experience. No matter much what chip is used If Dac is well designed. Every designer of the dac chose his chip for some reason, for example they can work with, having experience with or prefer it over another chip etc..

Moreover for example Chord, Emm Lab are using thier own chipsets..


Edited by not_sure - 12/1/10 at 3:40pm
post #240 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_sure View Post

sokolov91 I do not know what you are talking about and do not know what you are tryingpopcorn.gif

Firstly I have never heard Audio-gd dacs. Second my opinion about R2R and Sigma Delta or overal about chips is simple according to my experience. No matter much what chip is used If Dac is well designed. Every designer of the dac chose his chip for some reason, for example they can work with, having experience with or prefer it over another chip etc..

Moreover for example Chord, Emm Lab are using thier own chipsets..

I was agreeing with you that a dac does not need R2R to sound good, but that does not mean that R2R is not better. Thats all. It was just a statement really.

 

Sorry if the post seemed charged.

 

If a dac sounds good and is well implemented... it is good. It is as simple as that -like you said. Doesn't matter which chips are used.

 

However, there are lots of technical writings about why R2R are theoretically better than SD chips. But obviously SD chips sound good too, and there are surely poor R2R implementations that sound weak. But personal experience does not disprove these writings. It merely proves your preference, and that SD chips can indeed sound good too.
 

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