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post #46 of 56

How does that relate to iems/headphones?   
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cn11 View Post

 




PRaT - Pace, Rhythm and Timing

 


 

post #47 of 56

Different phones have different speeds, technical abilities and sonic characteristics that can affect the aforementioned.

post #48 of 56

Speed I can understand, but rhythm?  "These phones have good rhythm!" seems a bit odd, atleast the way I'm thinking of it (in the musical sense).  

 

I guess I need to hear phones with good rhythm and with bad...

post #49 of 56


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David58117 View Post

Speed I can understand, but rhythm?  "These phones have good rhythm!" seems a bit odd, atleast the way I'm thinking of it (in the musical sense).  

 

I guess I need to hear phones with good rhythm and with bad...


I think it's mostly speed - bloated, slow IEMs won't be able to keep the speed of a fast heavy metal segment for example.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

Nice impressions Ethan.  Much respect for putting the DBAs up against the Coppers in AB.  I concur w/ pretty much everything you said about the Coppers.  The mids as smooth as they are were not as intimate and engaging as the rest of the spectrum.  Major reason why I went w/ the MDs along w/ slightly better quality bass among other things.  It is a matter of personal preference and personal reference.

 

I'm glad I have the DBA on order, Jokers review has me feeling that they may be better than the ER4S across the board.  We shall see.  





Quote:
Originally Posted by dfrost View Post

Ethan has a such a great ability to describe sound from his IEM's - I can easily relate to his descriptions. Thank, you, sir!

 

(I won't weigh in on the DBA versus Copper comparison, being a confirmed lover of the former, and no experience with the latter)

Thank you for the comments, I've really never considered myself any good at describing sound, and I usually rely on the opinions of others like |Joker| and LFF to help me figure out what I'm hearing. This one was totally on a whim though, simply piping out what I'm thinking as I heard the two.

I guess one thing is that I've usually refrained from posting impressions, but with the lack of real MOT rules anymore, I figured (with the help of others) that it's safe to add my experiences. I try to be as fair as possible, which is important as a MOT since I'd be an obvious candidate for bias. Definitely no exaggerations here.

I also figured that it came to a point where it was simply a waste of knowledge to not post my experiences, especially with the lack of rules around here at the moment. If anyone has a problem with my posts, feel free to express it to me. I think (and others have told me) that my posts are helpful, so I will likely continue to post as per my normal standards since nobody has complained.

 

Anyways, regarding the ER-4S, I'm sure the DBAs would be a more pleasing everyday listen. The ER-4S is still the gold standard for a reference IEM, but unless you particularly dig that sound sig, it's not ideal for everyday listening, especially for a dynamic person. It's best at what it is intended for - a reference, analytical listening, and other related activities. They weren't intended to be something to rock out to, and rightfully so. They have a very special place in the IEM world, and I would not be surprised if it's still kicking around 5+ years from now.
 

post #50 of 56

Not intended to rock out to? Hmmm, I just checked out the Stones' Start Me Up with the ER4Ps and my amp/Touch setup, and I had a pretty good time, nothing analytical about it. I do agree the DBAs are a better bet for most listeners if they have to choose one, but I am using the Etys almost as much as the DBAs, and both of them work for all types of music. The DBAs, as I mentioned, are a little warmer and more fun, more for all genres. But when the Etys shine, there is a chill factor, as in goosebumps. As many have posted about them, you need a good source, but I never realized what I had when I had them last time.

post #51 of 56

All I'm saying is that Etymotic designs their products to be accurate. Not fun, but accurate. Fun would mean colouration most of the time. Ety doesn't want colouration. Ety wants their stuff to be dead on, something you could rely on. They get US government funding for research on that kind of stuff. That doesn't sign off that you can't enjoy them, all I mean is that fun isn't high up on their priority charts. That's a good thing, because if everyone was the same, we'd have pretty bland competition, and those people who would otherwise like the Etys are left Etyless.

I considered buying some ER-4Ps, but common sense got a hold of me and reminded me not to spend money on things that aren't of true need.

 

No doubt they are very competent IEMs and some people enjoy them, but I'd have to say they're just a bit too far off to one side of the spectrum to please the average person in the middle. That's all I mean, and I'm sure it's perfectly reasonable logic. No intentions at all of crapping on Ety's stuff, it's just fact that they stick to their principles and make their stuff as true to the ear as possible, as their name suggests. It's nothing new, it's just common knowledge that you don't really want to stray too far from the middle (IE8 on one side, ER-4P on the other) if you don't know what you love yet. Bassier is probably safer than bass light, since it's pumped into the brains of consumers that epic proportions of bass is awesome.

 

Summary: it's going to be hit or miss if you like the extreme ends of the spectrum if you don't know what you want. Going closer to the middle guarantees more satisfaction. From there, you get a taste of both sides, and if you make another purchase, you can use that base sound to move to whichever side you choose.

post #52 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan961 View Post

All I'm saying is that Etymotic designs their products to be accurate. Not fun, but accurate. Fun would mean colouration most of the time. Ety doesn't want colouration. Ety wants their stuff to be dead on, something you could rely on. They get US government funding for research on that kind of stuff. That doesn't sign off that you can't enjoy them, all I mean is that fun isn't high up on their priority charts. That's a good thing, because if everyone was the same, we'd have pretty bland competition, and those people who would otherwise like the Etys are left Etyless.

I considered buying some ER-4Ps, but common sense got a hold of me and reminded me not to spend money on things that aren't of true need.

 

No doubt they are very competent IEMs and some people enjoy them, but I'd have to say they're just a bit too far off to one side of the spectrum to please the average person in the middle. That's all I mean, and I'm sure it's perfectly reasonable logic. No intentions at all of crapping on Ety's stuff, it's just fact that they stick to their principles and make their stuff as true to the ear as possible, as their name suggests. It's nothing new, it's just common knowledge that you don't really want to stray too far from the middle (IE8 on one side, ER-4P on the other) if you don't know what you love yet. Bassier is probably safer than bass light, since it's pumped into the brains of consumers that epic proportions of bass is awesome.

 

Summary: it's going to be hit or miss if you like the extreme ends of the spectrum if you don't know what you want. Going closer to the middle guarantees more satisfaction. From there, you get a taste of both sides, and if you make another purchase, you can use that base sound to move to whichever side you choose.

 

 

I completely agree.  Even most serious studio headphones are designed to be as accurate as possible.  Being fun is an after thought.
 

post #53 of 56

I respect you Ethan, but in this case, I really can't agree that the Etys are for some select group of listeners that are some sort of fringe element. Of course, I don't feel that way about the IE8s either, even if they were not for me. Plenty of ER4P/S owners are people who love music, not a bunch of robots listening for tones and clicks. As far as being so far to one side of the spectrum, I can say I have both the DBAs, which I believe you really like, and the ER4P (but listening as the 4S via adapter), and on the same source, with the same amp, and the same tracks, and you'd be surprised at how close they really are. One thing is for certain, if the Etys are on an extreme end of the spectrum, the DBAs are sitting right next to them. I refer you the various ER4P/S threads on HF. I guess we disagree on what fun means, I don't believe it means coloration, for me, I find it fun (and other positive emotions too) to listen to a specific phone give me an amazing sound experience, a musical one, that is. Actual, real life fun, not some sort of sonic quality or steely cold objective. I have fun listening to both the Etys and the DBAs, and don't consider myself part of some outer fringe.

 

Are the Etys more accurate, detailed than most IEMs? Sure. But just like many, if not all, of the IEMs discussed here, variables such as tips, insertion, amps, sources, tracks, etc., can make the Etys sound better or worse. To say they only can sound a specific way, without taking those variables into account, is not a fair representation of them.

 

Of course they are not for everyone. I guess to me, that makes them special. As noted, I didn't really hear it the last time I owned them, but my upgraded gear, more flac files, etc., has changed my mind. You should keep yours open.

 

You say one can enjoy them, but fun is not "high up on the charts?" I would guess the folks at Ety would disagree. I guess I do after listening to them for the past day or so.

 

But why quibble? As I said, I respect you. It's just nice to be surprised by an IEM that I had written off, much like you have, as too extreme, when now, I find I was dead wrong. Now, let me go find those Etys, or should I listen to the DBAs? Nice problem to have.


Edited by slaters70 - 8/12/10 at 8:56pm
post #54 of 56

He's making a list, And checking it twice; Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice.

 

Santa?

post #55 of 56

Oh I don't mean the ER-4P is for a select group, I'm just saying that it's not designed to appeal to the masses. It's designed to do a job, and that job it does very well. I also don't think the DBAs are the middle I talked about, I agree with you there and am not surprised that they aren't too different. I'm not turned against the Etys, I'm just saying as you have said, they're not for everyone. That's all I meant earlier.

And yeah, I truly think Ety would have poured their primary bit engineering into making them accurate, not trying to make them fun. Sure, they might have worked on that, but I really don't think that was a priority for them. They made a reference monitor that's been the standard for what must be nearly 20 years now, so I think not making fun a major priority earned them a lot of respect.

post #56 of 56

Sounds like we can agree on that. Not for the masses? I sort of like that, now that you say it again.

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