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I'm making a list...

post #1 of 56
Thread Starter 

...and looking for complaints.

 

Anyways I'm looking to replace my q-Jays and have come up with the list below.  The things that annoyed me about the q-Jays were the somewhat recessed mids and paying for new filters especially when I usually ended up losing half of each pack before I could use them all (so replaceable wax filters = bad).  I did however really enjoy the bass quantity and quality of the q-Jays.  I wouldn't want much less but more wouldn't be a problem either.  I should also mention that I currently use a pair of Grado SR225s for home listening which I love.  When it comes to overall sound signature I want the headphones to get my foot tapping and not be super clinical but beyond that I'm pretty flexible as long as they sound awesome; I'm more concerned with the previously mentioned details.  Oh, and they should be comfy.

 

So, given what I've said above I'd like to hear any reasons why any of my listed phones would be a poor choice or even any complaints you have about them in general.  If you've heard more than one of them recommendations would be greatly appreciated too.

 

 

Audio Technica ATH-CK10
Monster Turbine Copper
Panasonic RP-HJE900
Fischer Audio DBA-02
 
P.S. Genres!  Totally forgot; mostly rock, some metal and acoustic stuff.
post #2 of 56

Copper and Panies sound up your alley.  Some would say the CK10 and DBA to be more on the clinical side.  Being a Grado guy and wanting foot tapping means veering away from neutral/analytical phones IMO.  Radius DDMs and MDs will give you more mids as well and work for acoustic.  Coppers beat both for rock and metal though.  Better attack and more aggression in the upper mids and treble.  Not sure if the Panies mids might be a bit light in relation to the Coppers.

post #3 of 56

DBA-02, MTP Copper are highely recommended............

post #4 of 56

have you considered the Monster turbine golds?  Don't get me wrong, I love my coppers, but the golds are cheaper and some people say that out of the box they have more bass.  They are also currently available with controltalk.  I think the coppers are supposed to get a control talk option soon as well.  

 

post #5 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShyFroggy View Post

have you considered the Monster turbine golds?  Don't get me wrong, I love my coppers, but the golds are cheaper and some people say that out of the box they have more bass.  They are also currently available with controltalk.  I think the coppers are supposed to get a control talk option soon as well.  

 


The golds do have slightly more extended bass but the Coppers are better for Rock and Metal specifically.

post #6 of 56

From what you've written I don't think you would like the CK10 and the DBA-02, these are very analytical / neutral phones. They have very clear and clean representation of the music, but the don't sound "fun" (does not mean bad). The Coppers and HJE900s seem good for you. I myself have owned the HEJ900s and can say they have amazing bass that is clean and controlled. HJE900s mids are a tad bit recessed but just turning up the volumes a little bit more than normal completely fixes it and with the volume turned up the mids are amazing to.

post #7 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post




The golds do have slightly more extended bass but the Coppers are better for Rock and Metal specifically.


I agree , the golds do have more bass ,and  the coppers are the better choice for rock and metal .

post #8 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKang25 View Post

From what you've written I don't think you would like the CK10 and the DBA-02, these are very analytical / neutral phones. They have very clear and clean representation of the music, but the don't sound "fun" (does not mean bad). The Coppers and HJE900s seem good for you. I myself have owned the HEJ900s and can say they have amazing bass that is clean and controlled. HJE900s mids are a tad bit recessed but just turning up the volumes a little bit more than normal completely fixes it and with the volume turned up the mids are amazing to.

The ER-4 is analytical, the DBA-02 is not. Analytical is very different than neutral, the SM3 which is rather warm is also said to be neutral. Also, I read a review yesterday saying the DBA has more bass than the Q-Jays (which the OP has and likes the bass of) so the DBA-02 and CK10 are not totally out of the question. In fact, his Q-Jays are rather similar to them, so I would think that he would be fine with either one. Those three armatures are all the most similar to his Grados in sound signature. The Panasonics will have a lot more bass than you are used to, so I would make sure you're ready for a lot more. The Coppers will have more as well, but it's a different type of bass. It's deep sub-bass that you really feel in your head. I have the DBA-02 and the Coppers and I find the Coppers to have a lot of bass. There is speculation that the way you burn in your Coppers determines the final sound signature. That thread popped up after I burned mine in so it was too late for me, but it seems that mine turned out quite bassy. I would probably like them more if they turned out more neutral.

 

I won't post any gripes since I'm the man behind Bugden Audio and therefore sell the DBAs.

 

Quick comparison: The Coppers have a bit bigger soundstage. The Coppers have more bass, and the bass has more impact. Both are involving but in different ways. The Coppers are more laid back and are smooth, almost like liquid. I can imagine these being nice for jazz etc, although I do not listen to anything other than rock for the most part. The DBA is more forward with the energy in the mids and highs. Bass is there as the recording intends. These are neutral, so nothing is there that should not be there and nothing is lacking that should be there. These are also revealing, so crap in = crap out, and you will hear the characteristics of your sources. The DBA has the edge in sound quality overall, whereas the Coppers are a more relaxing listen. One would not be paying as much attention to the detail with the Coppers.

 

In terms of involvement, I liken the Coppers to rocking out while relaxing on a sofa (as much of a paradox that sounds, just imagine someone sitting down and headbanging), and the DBA as being in a rock concert. The DBA is more energetic sounding as an armature driver, and the Coppers are smoother sounding, more relaxed as a dynamic drover.

 

The CK10 sounds similar to the DBA. I have not heard it, but they are quite similar from all other reports. My estimation (from all that I have read) is that the CK10 is about as warm as the Q-Jays, while the DBA-02 is a little bit warmer from reports I've read.

 

I can't suggest anything in particular since the DBAs are an option, but either one of the three I went over are an upgrade to your Q-Jays. The question is mostly how far off from that sound do you want to veer.
 

post #9 of 56

You should really read joker's review thread (click here for link) since he probably is the only one in head-fi who has heard the q-jays, dba-02, hje900, coppers and CK10.

 

I would assume the q-jays, DBA-02 and CK10 all sound similar due to them all having such tiny dual drivers. I've not heard the Q-Jays so won't comment on them and the same goes for the HJE900.

 

The CK10 and DBA-02 are both high up in my preferred list of universal earphones and the CK10 is probably the better package for me but at a much higher cost. The build quality of the CK10 is miles ahead of the DBA-02 and just about every other earphone not named CK100 or maybe those new replaceable earphones such as SE535, UM3X, UM2 but I haven't tried them. The DBA-02 does have good build but not much can compare to the CK10 which is easily the best built earphone I've ever owned or tried.

 

Sound wise the two of them are very close. I compared them both a little bit before I sold my CK10 so I had a couple days where I had the both of them on hand. There are a couple differences that I heard. Firstly the CK10 has a peak at the upper mids region and from memory around the 4-6khz region. Due to this peak some instrument may have their timbre a bit off. The bass of the CK10 extends lower and is a bit better quality imo. The treble of the CK10 seems to be unending but that isn't the case to the same extent as the DBA-02. Both of them are very good so it depends on your budget and whether any of that matters to you as well as build quality.


Edited by rawrster - 8/10/10 at 1:08pm
post #10 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan961 View Post



The ER-4 is analytical, the DBA-02 is not. Analytical is very different than neutral, the SM3 which is rather warm is also said to be neutral. Also, I read a review yesterday saying the DBA has more bass than the Q-Jays (which the OP has and likes the bass of) so the DBA-02 and CK10 are not totally out of the question. In fact, his Q-Jays are rather similar to them, so I would think that he would be fine with either one. Those three armatures are all the most similar to his Grados in sound signature. The Panasonics will have a lot more bass than you are used to, so I would make sure you're ready for a lot more. The Coppers will have more as well, but it's a different type of bass. It's deep sub-bass that you really feel in your head. I have the DBA-02 and the Coppers and I find the Coppers to have a lot of bass. There is speculation that the way you burn in your Coppers determines the final sound signature. That thread popped up after I burned mine in so it was too late for me, but it seems that mine turned out quite bassy. I would probably like them more if they turned out more neutral.

 

I won't post any gripes since I'm the man behind Bugden Audio and therefore sell the DBAs.

 

Quick comparison: The Coppers have a bit bigger soundstage. The Coppers have more bass, and the bass has more impact. Both are involving but in different ways. The Coppers are more laid back and are smooth, almost like liquid. I can imagine these being nice for jazz etc, although I do not listen to anything other than rock for the most part. The DBA is more forward with the energy in the mids and highs. Bass is there as the recording intends. These are neutral, so nothing is there that should not be there and nothing is lacking that should be there. These are also revealing, so crap in = crap out, and you will hear the characteristics of your sources. The DBA has the edge in sound quality overall, whereas the Coppers are a more relaxing listen. One would not be paying as much attention to the detail with the Coppers.

 

In terms of involvement, I liken the Coppers to rocking out while relaxing on a sofa (as much of a paradox that sounds, just imagine someone sitting down and headbanging), and the DBA as being in a rock concert. The DBA is more energetic sounding as an armature driver, and the Coppers are smoother sounding, more relaxed as a dynamic drover.

 

The CK10 sounds similar to the DBA. I have not heard it, but they are quite similar from all other reports. My estimation (from all that I have read) is that the CK10 is about as warm as the Q-Jays, while the DBA-02 is a little bit warmer from reports I've read.

 

I can't suggest anything in particular since the DBAs are an option, but either one of the three I went over are an upgrade to your Q-Jays. The question is mostly how far off from that sound do you want to veer.
 


Gawd, if the Coppers are more relaxed and the DBA's have more energy in the mids and top end, I'm certain the Fischers wouldn't be for me since I already find the Coppers strident and harsh in many instances. Eek.

post #11 of 56

I second Ethan's view of the DBAs, they are not strident nor does them having more energy mean they are anything but musical and a tremendous listen. So far, I have seen one person who has tried them to say they sounded anything but spectacular. They are not analytical, as Ethan says, they are just musical with the right balance of bass, mids and treble. They actually are fun to listen to and really deliver music in all its glory. Now, with the wrong tip, they can be harsh in my experience. But I have the right tip, the Ety Tri-flanges,and they sound amazing. I once owned the Coppers and they never sounded harsh to me, in fact they sounded kind of boring overall.

 

But I do agree, the DBAs are not for everyone. For the people who own them and love them (and never find them having too much energy or being too harsh), they are definitely for us. And for the OP, I might add.

 

I own ER4Ps and Re-Zeros, and they are analytical (but with an amp, I like them too). The DBAs are just a rollicking good time, fun, and a great dual BA IEM. They make music come alive, and will have you not wanting to stop listening.

post #12 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by cn11 View Post

Gawd, if the Coppers are more relaxed and the DBA's have more energy in the mids and top end, I'm certain the Fischers wouldn't be for me since I already find the Coppers strident and harsh in many instances. Eek.


I think the thing w/ the Coppers is fit, tip choice and positioning really alters the signature, not to mention differences in individual ears.  Leads to a very wide view of impressions.  Not to mention source and listening levels.  Coppers at low volume not so hot.

post #13 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaters70 View Post

I once owned the Coppers and they never sounded harsh to me, in fact they sounded kind of boring overall.

 


Honestly, I used to get bored w/ my Coppers as well after about 10-15min.  Kept wanting to put my MD's back in for a little more 'fun'.

post #14 of 56

What do you mean by "not analytical?" 

 

My understanding of "analytical" was something that reveals the layers of the music, that has good instrument separation, and that allows you to zoom in on any particular instrument and focus on the detail work being played. 

 

It seems soundstage dependent...if there's a nice soundstage (like my K701s), then I'll hear something like an acoustic guitar at 3 o'clock, an electric might come in at the 11 o'clock position, a piano in the center, and a cello 9 o'clock.  I'll easily be able to zoom in and hear whichever I want in detail. 

 

Is that analytical?  Should I expect the DBA02s to perform like that?  When I listen to my portapros (my only other headphones at the moment), it all sounds more together, there's no "gap" between the instruments like the K701s.  Transcribing would be much more difficult through them, whereas the K701s make it a cake walk. 

 

post #15 of 56

Analytical or clinical means emphasizing details and technicalities sometimes at the expense of musical enjoyment.  Many times 'analytical' phones lack or are deficient in sonic qualities that enhance musicality.  Also detail and soundstage are different.  You are actually describing imaging as well.  Put it this way.  If you find yourself analyzing your music as you describe your 701s but also find yourself bored and unengaged that would be a good understanding of overly 'analytical' or 'clinical'.

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