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My theory as to why headphones appear to 'burn in'. - Page 15

post #211 of 261

You'll find that the major manufacturers often adopt a "we have no comment on the issue of headphone break-in." I can see why.

 

If manufacturers make some kind of statement on break-in, consumers will react in different ways.

 

"I didn't notice any break-in effects. What's wrong with my headphones?" Due to the fact that the consumers either didn't notice break-in, or the phenomenon doesn't exist, some may feel let down that they didn't notice an improvement in sound.

 

If a headphone manufacturer makes a promise, however subtle, it may lead to disappointment or confusion. That's why they stay away from making comments; it opens a big can of worms.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter3d View Post



If the sound really gets better, this would be an obvious choice for manufacturers, as headphone business is a lot about performance and about how they perform sonically against competition (with regard to e.g. cables, the story is quite different). Burn in doesn't cost much, it does not require any overseeing, and if headphones are constantly produced - there would be no 'lag' because of burn-in in production. And I agree - unfortunately, the world is not run by scientists - that's why we have so much BS here and everywhere smily_headphones1.gif

 

What I had in mind was a recommendation in a manual that your headphones will sound better after burn-in. This doesn't cost anything at all smily_headphones1.gif Does Sennheiser, AKG, Grado or any other manufacturer put such recommendation in their manuals? If not, why are they hiding such an important secret from you???? Or maybe they all are ignorant?

post #212 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by poikkeus View Post

You'll find that the major manufacturers often adopt a "we have no comment on the issue of headphone break-in." I can see why.

 

If manufacturers make some kind of statement on break-in, consumers will react in different ways.

 

"I didn't notice any break-in effects. What's wrong with my headphones?" Due to the fact that the consumers either didn't notice break-in, or the phenomenon doesn't exist, some may feel let down that they didn't notice an improvement in sound.

 

If a headphone manufacturer makes a promise, however subtle, it may lead to disappointment or confusion. That's why they stay away from making comments; it opens a big can of worms.

 

 


 


QFT

post #213 of 261
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albedo View Post

Relative pitch is dependent on a recently perceived tonal center, but pitch memory is subconscious and very much at change depending on the current environment. In alchemy we have sulphur and quicksilver, dissolution and coagulation, not making the slightest sense science wise, but what about our feelings?

 

Saying helló (going up at the end means your glad), hellò (going down, what? not glad to see me, too hurtful -> feeling delegated to the subconsciousness). As for rigourous blind tests, it's what people consciously discerns throughout a greater time span (crystallized, end product, summa summarum)  than just one feeling.. like trying to catch lightning with glue, one gets entangled in a system (dead, slow, stable, center...)

 

Boring and all equipment tends to sound the same... ego-bounded/ narcissistic thoughts dominate, a shift of the current feeling of proving that's a fact within a very limited view of eternity? Sub specie aeternitatis. LOL!

 

In the wind of the mind arises the turbulence
called I.
It breaks; down shower the barren thoughts.
All life is choked.


A beautiful explanation.

post #214 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Strummer View Post

The only measurements I've seen about burn in in headphones in particular was in Tyll's Headphone lab thread (here is the post). At least the initial measurements of burn in in the K701 seem to suggest, at least regarding frequency response, that the error of positioning of headphones is greater than the change of burn in if there is indeed one, which seems to say that big changes would be hard to encounter at least.

 

Also, due to that smallness, getting measurements doesn't seem to be as straightforward as one would hope, when Tyll returns that is probably one of the measurements that could be performed.




This is what I'm looking for, Thanks for your sharing!
post #215 of 261

I'm amazed after hundreds, nay thousands of posts, that no-one else seems to have done what I did several years ago to verify claims whether burn-in itself is a real ocurrence.

 

 

This is a basic, obvious test and is far more productive than arguing it back and forth on the web based on your 'I'm right' ego-driven misconceptions. It perhaps speaks volumes about the nature of this forum these days that this doesn't come up at all.

 

 

- Buy two HD650's.  *NEW* (of course) from the same supplier so that you have more likelihood of obtaining two from the same batch.

 

- If you are not familiar with optimal placement of headphone, practice rapid switching of phones to obtain optimal placement as quickly as possible when swapping between phones. If the claims are real, then an hour or so spent with the phones playing back audio to practice the switching will not result in any corruption of the test. Aim to leave as short a gap betwen the switch as possible. I used a push button audio switch for the headphone cutover, and I put thick foam around where I was sitting (on the floor) so that I could literally sweep the HD650 off my head as I was wearing the other one without damage issues. N.B. It doesn't have to be an HD650 - but I would recommend it simply becuase it is the most written-abount phone in recent years. However for the earlier mentioned reason of placement, it is highly recommended that you do this with a phone that you are very familiar with (even if it means buying three of them eventually). Obviously the phone should be one that is talked about often on here as benefittng fro burn-in.

 

- Listen to both briefly and make sure there are no significant variances in sound. If the changes are as dramatic as some claim it to be then it is important that there are no major variances at this point.

 

- Calibrate headphone amp to regular listening volume

 

- Wrap both loosely in a plastic bag (prevent dust contamination. I used bags with holes in them - I probably have to mention 'on the sides' as some idiot will probably poke holes at the top - for air to circulate).

 

- Put both in the same approximate location

 

- Connect one of the phones, playback on repeat for 100 hours

 

- Unwrap both phones, if necessary practice rapid switching again, and evaluate sonic changes.

 

- Make your own conclusions

 

 

HTH

 

EDIT: I ninja edited as it wasn't sufficiently ambiguous whether I had verified it or not. At the expense of starting another flame-war, my opinion is that it is a load of bollocks.


Edited by bangraman - 11/19/10 at 4:10am
post #216 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangraman View Post

I'm amazed after hundreds, nay thousands of posts, that no-one else seems to have done what I did several years ago to verify claims that burn-in itself is a real ocurrence.

 

This is a basic, obvious test and is far more productive than arguing it back and forth on the web based on your 'I'm right' ego-driven misconceptions. It perhaps speaks volumes about the nature of this forum these days that this doesn't come up at all.

 

snip...

 

(even if it means buying three of them eventually)


You answered your own question right there.  Everyone knows its basic and obvious.  Everyone does not have the spare cash to buy 2 or 3 copies of the same headphone.

 

To extend the idea further, that's why this whole damn forum exists.  If we had they money to buy what ever we wanted we wouldn't have to ask people's opinions beforehand.  hopefully one day I'll be in a position where I can actually afford to do that kind of thing and tell others about my results, but we're talking about it because we don't.

post #217 of 261

i always thought the burning in of headphones was like the braking in of shoes

so basically breaking in the suspension and/or spider of the speaker

post #218 of 261

It does not take everybody to do this test. Only the skeptics need to do this test, but I am afraid the skeptics have their pride and ego to defend, so they would rather argue and debate. You'll always need a control group in an experiment. This is the only way to verify a phenomena. I challenged Mr. Prog Rock Man to get two pairs of Shure E2 and burn in one for 500 hours and then compare, but he did not care. His loss. If you are really that desperate to find out the truth, you'll do anything. After that, sell both pairs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post


You answered your own question right there.  Everyone knows its basic and obvious.  Everyone does not have the spare cash to buy 2 or 3 copies of the same headphone.

 

To extend the idea further, that's why this whole damn forum exists.  If we had they money to buy what ever we wanted we wouldn't have to ask people's opinions beforehand.  hopefully one day I'll be in a position where I can actually afford to do that kind of thing and tell others about my results, but we're talking about it because we don't.

post #219 of 261

The OP actually came up with one of the more elegant and simple explanations for headphone break-in. I like to keep an open mind on the matter, since neither skeptics nor believers have a complete command of the evidence. But this experiential explanation is logical, and stands up to scrutiny. 

post #220 of 261
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT View Post

It does not take everybody to do this test. Only the skeptics need to do this test, but I am afraid the skeptics have their pride and ego to defend, so they would rather argue and debate. You'll always need a control group in an experiment. This is the only way to verify a phenomena. I challenged Mr. Prog Rock Man to get two pairs of Shure E2 and burn in one for 500 hours and then compare, but he did not care. His loss. If you are really that desperate to find out the truth, you'll do anything. After that, sell both pairs.

 


 


Have you run a blind test with your two Shure E2s? That would be an interesting experiment.

 

I do not have the money that I am prepared to commit to do the same to meet your challenge.

 

I do believe that there is such a thing as burn in for dynamic speakers. I don't for other types of speaker.

 

 

post #221 of 261

Well, my methodology is out there. It's up to whoever to use it, or improve on the testing procedure.

 

 

I'm not going to waste time arguing it myself, because things like this don't gain traction until a few people have actually tried testing the same way... and peeing against the ego-ignoramus peer group is a large part of what made me all but quit Head-Fi in any case. 


Edited by bangraman - 11/17/10 at 3:03pm
post #222 of 261
Thread Starter 

Inbetween the name calling there is a lot of useful and interesting opinion, information and evidence.

 

This forum more than other hifi forums I read/have read, the name calling and general abuse is the worst. But there gets a point where it is so bad it loses its impact and is easy to gloss over.

 

 


Edited by Prog Rock Man - 11/18/10 at 9:50am
post #223 of 261

wuaaahhh, wuaaahhh, wuaaahhh!! gricon_wuah.gif

 

yeah.. progrockman.. such a pity some people can see in between what's genuine, and what's ridiculous balderdash... huh?

 

I'm pretty sure all the useful and interesting opinion, information and evidence you're referring to are about your posts on the placebo effect and other mental conditions you prolly like to label on other's experiences... lol

 

if you don't like it here maybe you could try post your theories at a less understanding forum (WigWam?)

 

yeah...

post #224 of 261

There goes another irony meter...

post #225 of 261
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

wuaaahhh, wuaaahhh, wuaaahhh!! gricon_wuah.gif

 

yeah.. progrockman.. such a pity some people can see in between what's genuine, and what's ridiculous balderdash... huh?

 

I'm pretty sure all the useful and interesting opinion, information and evidence you're referring to are about your posts on the placebo effect and other mental conditions you prolly like to label on other's experiences... lol

 

if you don't like it here maybe you could try post your theories at a less understanding forum (WigWam?)

 

yeah...

 

Your post comes over as; we disagree, so you are going to be be abusive rather than participate in a reasonable debate with the intention of making me leave the forum.

 

I can post my theories here any time I want to. You cannot do anything about that and I will not back down whatever abuse you want to try and dish out.

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